Well I want to make this very clear..... there is some mis-information going on here that I feel needs to be put into order.

1- Lithium won't spontaneously just melt down (called Thermal Runaway). There has to be a set of circumstance that trigger this effect. For example.... if you severely over-discharge a Lithium battery... usually the older style like a Ballistic or Braille, or some of Antigravity Batteries original models that didn't have the built in BMS (Battery Management System) say down to 4v... then you bump-start or Jump-STart your vehicle... then that Lithium battery is being FAST CHARGED by the vehicles system because the vehicles system does not know that its a Lithium Battery. So from a low state of charge the battery is having voltage and current pushed into it. Lithium does NOT do well with a FAST CHARGE while in a severely over-discharged state. This can cause the battery to over-heat, swell or ultimately go into thermal runaway which is a melt down of the battery and worst case fire. So there is that potential. BUT, it must be noted that is possible with the OLDER style batteries WITHOUT the modern protections, but the modern protection prevent the battery from being over-discharge... Again just stating is not a spontaneous combustion, there is circumstances that will occur before a Lifepo4 Lithium-Ion Battery would go into Thermal Runaway..

Additionally another potential cause of Thermal runaway is severe over-charge. This can be cause by putting a lead/acid charger with a De-Sulphate mode that spikes the voltages to the Lithium Battery, and causes a severe over-charge state. Again, a circumstance that can be avoided by using the proper aftermarket charger. For example if a Lithium Specific Charger sees a lithium battery in an over-discharged state it will actually massage it back up to 10.5v roughly THEN start going into regular fast charging. This prevents the battery from over-heating. Also the more modern batteries like our Car Batteries you see me speak of have protections against this, and well as other interior protections. Also note a cars charging system will not go above 15v max in most all cases, a cars system is regulated very well so it won't over-charge any battery be it Lead/Acid or Lithium. So it is the Aftermarket chargers and incorrect type of Charger that would create an over-charge type scenario.


2- The Lithium Battery in a Ballistic, or Braille, and some of our older models DO NOT have protections against over-discharge, or overcharge. Both these factors are the leading causes of damage to a lithium battery that ultimately leads to the Thermal Runaway instance, or short life-cycle. But it must be stated that for the last 2.5 years our Automotive Batteries and most our MOtorcycle Batteries DO have all these protections. So they cannot be put into scenarios where they battery goes into thermal runaway. So that is why if you look up any of my previous posts all over Renn I am saying to make sure to buy Lithium Batteries with these protections built in so you are getting a safe battery but also a long life cycle battery.

3- Lithium batteries, even without protections, and which we still make for alot of MOtorcycles are also quite safe. They do not just melt down. These Batteries are still a viable option for most all racing vehicles and even Street Motorcycles and Powersports vehicles. If you keep them maintained and do not allow them to go into an over-discharged state they are perfectly fine and safe. The key is NOT allowing servers over-discharge at any point. But we do not suggest these type of Batteries for Street Cars because you need a higher Amp Hour Capacity, and in Street Vehicles we want to see all the protections possible.

 

All due respect this is not an accurate a statement. It is quite incorrect to say Lithium-Ion is unstable due to the fact you have to speak to the specific chemical make-up you are talking about. . There are many different chemical make-ups of Lithium-Ion.... we used Lithium Iron Phosphate (lifepo4), which is known as a safer energy dense Lithium make up, and it cannot be compare it to Lithium Polymer/Lithium Cobalt which is a dramatically different level of safety and stability and was in the Hoover Boards and Phones. There is also different level of quality in the Lithium Cells themself. Each different Lithium chemical make-up is quite different in regards to life-cycle, safety, stability, energy density and a number of other factors. Lithium-Ion is an umbrella term to cover any re-chargeable lithium battery chemistry, but they vary greatly and most other make-ups aren't usable as Car Starter Batteries. So I suggest a bit more research on the types of Lithium chemistries because the the Hoverboard and other fires are mostly a completely different chemical make up than what is used in the Automobile Starter Batteries.

I can only specifically speak for our Antigravity Starter Battery, such as we produce, but it has an on-board BMS- Battery Management System that protects and controls the level of discharge, over-charge and other factors pertaining to charging the battery itself. Additionally our battery has short circuit protection and Cell Balancing Thermal protections built-in. We also put a flame proof board around the cell packs on the interior for any outside anomaly occurring beyond the control of the BMS offers which would contain most any overheated elements. So our battery, in essence, has a gate keeper for what the battery is being exposed to that could potentially allow it to become damaged, or abused and eventually dangerous.

 

Just so you understand... and I trust you did not feel that 180 lbs.... but it was MASSIVELY effecting the cars performance.... and the faster you are going the more dramatic.

To give you and example.

Let take a 10 lbs lead brick. Your buddy tosses it to you at 5 MPH. Well actually for you to stop that 10lbs Brick at 5MPH Lead brick took about 20 lbs of force. Because as the speed of that brick increases so does the force to stop it...( my numbers are entirely accurate it just an Example, I am not a qualified engineer to make those calculations, but the fact are absolutely accurate and relatable.)

But now we take that same brick and he throws it to you going 10 MPH.... double the speed of before.... do you think it now take just double the force to stop that ... so maybe it should take 40lbs of force to stop it. Nope, it doesn't work that way... it exponentially increasing. Meaning the force required to stop that 10lbs brick in not taking about 80lbs of force to stop that brick.. because it exponentially more force as the speed increases.

So now have the small 10lbs going 60MPH.... and you are required to stop it. That brick is going to be requiring Like 800 lbs or of force to stop it... because as you speed increases the force required to stop it increases very dramatically. The brick would blow through a wall at 60MPH.

Anyway my number are not accurate whatsoever so no-one call me out on it. But the principal is accurate and absolute. We need and engineer to figure it, but theres alot to figure this type of equation out. But my point is slowing 180 lbs down from 120 mph to 30MPH going into a corner is more massive than you can realize... so for your braking, acceleration and extra forces swinging to the outside of a corner in your car it a massive load off these components such as brakes, suspension and so forth. So while you may not "feel" it personally, it's there and massively substantial, so for people wanting the ultimate performance and tenths of a second or more per every few corner matters weight IS that important. So a 35lbs weight saving from a LIthium Battery is the most cost effective and beneficial weight loss product without argument.... plus with ours you get built in jump starting and longer life than Lead/Acid.

But to each his own. I'm not saying it the best thing since sliced bread. It just a seriously legitimate option for the performance minded.

 

First... you are a site sponsor and you sell Li batteries. I am not here to antagonize you. I posted above early on on this thread, well before you first posted.

Having said that, I refer you to your post #16, where, correctly, you outline the proper reqs to handle a Li battery. The problem is that all is well IF all those safeguards and operational procedures work correctly. But, understanding electronics, I know they can fail, and they do... so when the devil in the details rears his head is when the Li battery becomes a problem. I have seen Murphy and I know he's around.

 

If you weren't going with Lithium Ion, what other lightweight battery would you suggest?

 

There is no other Lightweight battery chemistry than Lithium available for Automobiles as a Starter Battery.

BUT, some people will put a SMALLER Lead/Acid Powersport Version of a Battery in the Car and it works to lose some weight. For example the Odyssey 925 (28lbs) is often used and they make a special hold down for that battery at Pelican. Some People use a Braille 3121 Battery which is just a smaller Lead/Acid Battery that they claim is a "lightweight" Battery at (22lbs).... But the fact is the Braille 3121 is just a rebranded Deka 30L that is $130 dollar MORE than the Deka because it says Braille on it. So just buy a Deka if you want to save some money and get more weight loss. Either of these types of batteries won't be a drop in fit, and you will need to have a separate tray to mount them in your car or devise something to hold them in place.

Now for my input... the Lithium Battery will be much more expensive than the Deka option.. but all the other options are Lead Batteries... and having lower amp hour capacity if you over discharge them accidentally they will be damaged. So yes the Lithium is more.. but it over double the life span, and probably more being than the smaller lead/Acids usually don't last as long as the larger lead/Acids. So with lithium you save another 10lbs, have much better starting, and have full protection and Wireless built-in Jump Starting. So yes more cost up front. but a life span and features that actually do outweigh the up front cost and are an over-all better value.

The good news is you can have options...