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997 future value analysis

 
Old 03-22-2019, 10:57 AM
  #16  
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The average used PDK I assume is over 3k more than otherwise equal MT variant to account for original cost differential. Do most first owners(leases) buy cars off the lot or order them? Alot of dealers seem to not have alot of stock, so I assume they order more PDK in silver and black and gray and white instead of MT in red and yellow because they don't want stock sitting too long. Alot of the younger, less than 45-50yo people I know that could afford a new Porsche didn't drive a manual growing up and aren't going to start on their new Porsche. Demographics have changed. In an ideal world I'd want a manual for street and PDK for track. I suppose I'd like the better mpg of the PDK too, but my last Audi cruised at less than 1500rpm unless I kept in sport or manually kept in lower gear, and then the mpg improvement wasn't that much.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:51 AM
  #17  
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Porsche and the 911 as we know it are quickly disappearing .... Just look at the 992 . I get why Porsche is doing what they are doing to stay competitive and viable business. Marketing dictates where a brand and model direction should go and we are not the mass demographic or the brands future.

PDK transmissions preferred over manual , Touring cars , driving management systems , Glitsy consoles with waaay too may electronics , Fake vents for styling , the list goes on and on. This is what the masses want and rest assured Porsche has spent a ton of cash ensuring proper research into what will sell into the future.

Just sucks for guys and gals like us who want what Porsche of the past has always given us ... just a little better each time up until now.
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Old 03-23-2019, 12:46 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by nwGTS View Post
These cars aren't old enough yet for manual vs PDK to really matter much in resale for the Carreras. People are still daily driving them.
Wait another ten years when the info about lugging PDKs contributing to bore scoring in the 9A1 permeates and threads start popping up about PDK repair bills out of warranty. And also ultimately when Porsche manuals do eventually disappear from the options list.
Such nonsense. The PDK will not allow you to lug the engine under any circumstances. Steady cruising at 50 mph in 7th gear does not lug the engine. Any attempt to accelerate or fall below 50 causes an immediate downshift. It will not allow you to upshift if it would cause the engine to lug. You are at more risk of lugging the engine with a manual transmission. Admittedly, there may be cause for future concern over the PDK. If they can't get a $35k engine right, what are the odds they can get a $15k transmission right?

Last edited by Balr14; 03-23-2019 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 03-23-2019, 03:11 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
Such nonsense. The PDK will not allow you to lug the engine under any circumstances. Steady cruising at 50 mph in 7th gear does not lug the engine. Any attempt to accelerate or fall below 50 causes an immediate downshift. It will not allow you to upshift if it would cause the engine to lug. You are at more risk of lugging the engine with a manual transmission. Admittedly, there may be cause for future concern over the PDK. If they can't get a $35k engine right, what are the odds they can get a $15k transmission right?
Well, where they at long last need to arrive is to allow Porsche mechanics in the US and other countries to open the PDK's up and repair them instead of the current nonsense of shipping broken ones to Germany, giving the customer no choice but to buy a replacement unit. New or rebuilt it'll be a minimum of $10K and I think you're lucky to find a good one at that price point. Mine was $14,000 from the dealer, warrantied for 2 years as I recall it. Don't know if it was a rebuilt unit or brand new.

Yes, you can source salvage PDK's but the dealership I deal with would refuse to install it. Take your chance with the salvage unit to begin with and then another gamble with an indy who probably doesn't know much about it.
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:22 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by gulshan View Post
Pdk (Cab (c4 < c < c4s < c2s) < Coupe (c4 < c < c4s < c2s) ) < 6MT (Cab (c4 < c < c4s < c2s) < Coupe (c4 < c < c4s < c2s) )
Most desirable MT coupe c2s
Least pdk/tip cab c4
This has been the case historically for Porsche 911s and to a different degree, Ferraris, etc. As mentioned, the rarer the car, the more valuable. If someone gave me a non manual, C4 Cab Iíd unload it as fast as possible while it still retained itís value. Not trying to be a snob, simply look a the numbers ($$) on cars more than 20 years old. On a five to ten year old car, maybe not so much but give the car 20 years (if you choose to hang on to it that long).

A friend of mine searched for a while to find a manual trans Ferrari 355, had zero interest in a non manual car (I wouldnít either). He stated that there are many Ferrari enthusiasts (collectors) that arenít even looking at the F1 gearbox Ferraris (once Ferrari stopped producing the manual trans car), It is the turning point for collectible Ferraris.

No matter the car, new and late model buyers look for Tips, PDK, etc. in the largest numbers. Porsche and Ferrari have responded to that.

Collectors... want manuals (without 4WD). Thatís where the money is.

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Old 03-23-2019, 01:11 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by KNS View Post


This has been the case historically for Porsche 911s and to a different degree, Ferraris, etc. As mentioned, the rarer the car, the more valuable. If someone gave me a non manual, C4 Cab I’d unload it as fast as possible while it still retained it’s value. Not trying to be a snob, simply look a the numbers ($$) on cars more than 20 years old. On a five to ten year old car, maybe not so much but give the car 20 years (if you choose to hang on to it that long).

A friend of mine searched for a while to find a manual trans Ferrari 355, had zero interest in a non manual car (I wouldn’t either). He stated that there are many Ferrari enthusiasts (collectors) that aren’t even looking at the F1 gearbox Ferraris (once Ferrari stopped producing the manual trans car), It is the turning point for collectible Ferraris.

No matter the car, new and late model buyers look for Tips, PDK, etc. in the largest numbers. Porsche and Ferrari have responded to that.

Collectors... want manuals (without 4WD). That’s where the money is.


Agreed. But this analysis is about cars that have not and may never, reach the collector stage. They are just high-priced used cars.
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Old 03-23-2019, 03:14 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by KNS View Post


This has been the case historically for Porsche 911s and to a different degree, Ferraris, etc. As mentioned, the rarer the car, the more valuable. If someone gave me a non manual, C4 Cab Iíd unload it as fast as possible while it still retained itís value. Not trying to be a snob, simply look a the numbers ($$) on cars more than 20 years old. On a five to ten year old car, maybe not so much but give the car 20 years (if you choose to hang on to it that long).

A friend of mine searched for a while to find a manual trans Ferrari 355, had zero interest in a non manual car (I wouldnít either). He stated that there are many Ferrari enthusiasts (collectors) that arenít even looking at the F1 gearbox Ferraris (once Ferrari stopped producing the manual trans car), It is the turning point for collectible Ferraris.

No matter the car, new and late model buyers look for Tips, PDK, etc. in the largest numbers. Porsche and Ferrari have responded to that.

Collectors... want manuals (without 4WD). Thatís where the money is.

Not sure if collectors will want to worry about a PDK issue in 20 years. If it's a low mile one that sits than maybe so. Also, despite the notion that 993 C2S manuals should be more desirable, the 993 C4Ss seem to fetch more at least on BAT.
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Old 03-24-2019, 02:58 PM
  #23  
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Thanks for all the replies. With respect to all the comments about the Carrera 4 Cabriolet, I agree that this is probably due to the limited supply of cars. There were only indeed about 12 for sale in the whole German market. Perhaps I can find somewhere the production numbers.

Originally Posted by DesmoSD View Post
Great video! I'm looking forward to the Carrera S segment and fingers crossed, a U.S spec analysis if possible.
Thanks, I will post the video about the Carrera S next week. I'm currently also working on a US version. The depreciation analysis itself is easy to repeat but it is a little bit more difficult to get the data. I'm curious to find out if there are major differences with Europe.

Originally Posted by Sporty View Post
Guy went through all this effort to put this "data" together for FWIW and make the video but insists on putting in the annoying backgound music, in addition to his accent and fast talking my mind can't process the information - I stopped watching at 1 Minute.
Well, I'm not perfect. English is not my mother tongue (as you can tell) and I do my best to make the videos as engaging as possible. It is a fine line between 'boring' and 'too much going on'.

Originally Posted by Fined View Post
its a mindless waste of time. And the frothing hoards of manual owners on this forum will tell you your data is incorrect about pdk even though you are not the only one to find out what you've stated that PDK will perform as strong as manual in resale. It's a mental issue thats all.

Originally Posted by nwGTS View Post
These cars aren't old enough yet for manual vs PDK to really matter much in resale for the Carreras. People are still daily driving them.
Wait another ten years when the info about lugging PDKs contributing to bore scoring in the 9A1 permeates and threads start popping up about PDK repair bills out of warranty. And also ultimately when Porsche manuals do eventually disappear from the options list.
I think both of these statements make sense. The data for the 997 indeed confirms that there is no visible effect. The way I see it, this is mainly due to the PDK boxes which offer (for the first time?) a solid performance benefit when compared to the manuals. However, there is a strong effect visible for the 996 and this makes one wonder if it is due to the age or due to the fact that the Tiptronic simply isn't as good as the PDK. It would be interesting to see how the 996 was doing when they had the same age as the current 997.
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Old 03-30-2019, 10:05 AM
  #24  
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For those of you interested, this is the video about the S models:

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Old 03-30-2019, 08:12 PM
  #25  
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I’m a newbie. What does facelift mean?
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Old 03-30-2019, 08:31 PM
  #26  
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Same as in women.
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Old 03-31-2019, 09:48 AM
  #27  
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Gotta love pc? My wife told me she would not get a repainting regardless of how much it would increase her value!
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Old 05-25-2019, 11:47 AM
  #28  
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Same topic, different car. For those of you interested, I made a same type of analysis for the 996 turbo (see the link below). The prices for the 996 Turbo have been increasing steadily over the last few years and this definitely shows in the market. Model year is no longer having an effect on the price of the car and price fluctuations are huge. I came across cars prices at EUR 280k.

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Old 06-10-2019, 05:17 AM
  #29  
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Interesting data as of June 2019 ..

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...05&YearTo=2007

Manual and tiptronic s 997.1 are still sold without a price difference.
The determining data are the condition of the vehicle, mileage, the state of the market in that country, supply and demand and additions (sports seats / chrono sports, etc.).

Last edited by f911; 06-10-2019 at 05:20 AM. Reason: proofreading
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:46 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by rap View Post
Iím a newbie. What does facelift mean?
I believe the 997.1 is non facelift and 997.2 is the facelift model.
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