When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Head to Head Oil Report: Motul vs Swepco vs Pentosin
The indy that I bought my car from told me Pentosin High Performance was the only oil to use. RAC Performance who did my PPI told me Motul 8100 was the only oil to use. Jake Raby says DT40 is the only oil to use. My current indy tells me Swepco is a magical elixir for all 911s and the only oil to use. I guess you can see the trend developing here.
It started to seem subjective so I put together a head to head Blackstone report on it. I wanted to share for everyone's benefit.
First, my observations:
- Oil pressure seemed much higher with Pentosin. I never recall it under 3 during hot idle. With Motul or Swepco its around 1-1.5 during hot idle.
- Lifters are much quieter with Motul. I would hear a faint ticking in the cabin on a cold mornings (for SF) with Pentosin. Swepco seems a little noisier then Motul.
- Motul also seemed to run hotter than Pentosin. Swepco seemed to run a little cooler when I first put it in but was running just as hot, or hotter than Motul, by the end of the cycle.
- I burned slightly more oil with Swepco. With Motul or Pentosin I was still at 4 bars after 5k miles. With Swepco I was down to 1-2 bars after 5k miles.
Second, the data:
- For reference, the first report was with Pentosin, the next 3 are with Motul 8100 5W40, and the last is with Swepco 15w40.
- I saw a big jump in Zinc and Phosphorous from Pentosin to Motul and another big jump from Motul to Swepco. My understanding is thats the ZDDP anti-wear additive. More is better.
- Big jump in Molybdenum with Swepco. I assume this is another anti-wear additive.
- I think the jump in silicon in the second oil change was from removing and resealing the oil pan
- Big jump in calcium with Swepco. No idea what that means.
- The slight increase in Aluminum with Swepco and Pentosin might be because I went longer between changes.
- Im not educated enough to interpret the viscosity and flashpoint readings. I think its saying Motul is holding up better. And since Swepco is a non-synthetic targeting a more track-oriented audience, im not sure if its loss of viscosity is expected.
- I dont know what "TR" means for fuel% but I do admit to idling too long while on phone calls...
Thanks for the data point. I have used Mobil 1 0W40 and now I am running DT40 5W40. After about 1k miles, the fully warm idle pressure with Mobil 1 was 1-1.5. With DT40 at about 2k miles it's never below 1.5. I had 2 good blackstone reports with Mobil 1, but I'm going to wait another 1k miles before doing a change and sending off the DT40.
As a comparison, here's my 06 S with 93k Miles on it. The first few samples are from Motul and the lst two are of Miller's CFS NT.
Glad to see another 997.1 running strong.
Good idea - the problem with it is that the addative packages in the different oils don't always play well together and since you can't get all the oil out during every oil change, switching oil brands frequently to do an analysis like this doesn't give you great conclusions and isn't the best idea. You'd have to run each oil for about 5 changes and only look at the data from the 4th or 5th to draw any good conclusions. For example, the addatives in DT40 don't like those in Mobil 1 at all. If switching to DT40 from Mobil 1 you need to run for a couple hundred miles in between with one of their break-in oils - BR30 or BR40, then do a change and run the DT40, but the first UOA results will still be skewed by the Mobil 1.
Pick the one you think you like and sticking with it is the best bet.
OP, is your latest report Swepco 308 or 310? It'd be helpful to know which one. Both are intended for use in heavy duty diesel applications. Here are a few comments about the points you bring up (Full Disclosure: I'm in my 21st year as an AMSOIL dealer, and have used those products exclusively on all my cars since 1998. I'm not a credentialed Lubrication Engineer but have performed many oil samples over same period).
1. Zinc, Phosphorus and Moly are all additive metals in Swepco's formulation. Higher levels of ZDDP can affect emissions control components (like say cats) and is not necessarily a good thing.
2. Silicon is normally dirt passing through intake system. I agree with you that the small increase seen previously is from the sealant used.
3. Aluminum at 6ppm is normal, as is the case with the other wear metals. I think your engine's in fine shape.
4. The oil viscosity sheared (decreased) out of 40 into 30 (range for 30 viscosity is 9.3<12.5 cSt). Swepco 308 starts out at 15.34; the 310 oil starts out at 15.14. Viscosity stability is important to protecting motors.
5. TR means Trace. Higher amounts are usually caused by fuel injectors leaking excess fuel past the rings into the sump. That excess fuel will decrease viscosity.
My oil of choice for my '09 Carrera. This oil carries Porsche A40 factory approval. I'm about 500 miles away from first oil sample on this, and will post when complete.
Last edited by swingwing; 11-29-2018 at 10:01 AM.
Reason: Added picture.
I guess Mobile1 is evil? It is not even an option worth considering here. Is that why I blew 2 engines in my Boxster?
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Mobil 1 European Formula 0W/40 and Turbo Diesel Truck 5W/40 are the only ones with decent levels of Zinc & Phosphorous (ZDDP) to protect the valvetrain. All the other Mobil 1 oils are below 1,000 ppm of both and you really want 1,100-1.200 which isn't high enough to damage catalytic converters, but high enough to protect the valvetrain.
I ran Turbo Diesel Truck 5W/40 in my vehicles for a while, but found that it doesn't have the shear resistance properties needed for higher revs in a 997 motor and would shear down to a lower viscosity as quickly as 3,000 miles so went away from that over to the Motul 8100 xcess as I live in a climate where I don't need to run a 0W/40 weight and prefer the slightly thicker cold grade of 5W/40 for additional start-up protection. The Motul was much better and allowed me to get to a 4,000 mile interval in my car and 5,000 interval in my wife's without seeing TAN exceed TBN (oil not getting too acidic) and the viscosities and flashpoints were more stable.
On the advice of FSI, I switched to the DT40 and have been using that in all my vehicles that require a 5W/40 weight oil - both 997s, Cayenne Turbo S, GMC pickup with good results. The DT40 UOA reports have been slightly better than the Motul so far. I run DT50 in my other vehicles that require a heavier weight oil (914, 928, boat).
Here's an example from my wife's C2S
ZDDP levels are higher, viscosity numbers are higher, and oil becomes less acidic (lower TAN) with the DT40 than with the Motul.
I guess Mobile1 is evil? It is not even an option worth considering here. Is that why I blew 2 engines in my Boxster?
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Doubt Porsche, Mercedes, Corvette et al would use Mobil 1 as factory fill if it weren’t good enough. Lots of other good choices out there. Used oil analysis is an excellent method for keeping an eye on engine condition, as others here show.
Why are you runnning a 15W40 oil in a modern water cooled car with variocam plus?
Based on your last report, I'd say your car does not like the Swepco. The report says to go back to Motul, at least.
+1 - that one's not a good match. I don't like to see double digit ppm numbers for any wear metals. With the Blackstone reports, you need to learn to interpret the #s and ignore the commentary they provide, as it' must always a beautiful day at Blackstone labs as their reports are always "everything is great", which is nice, except when everything isn't as great.
The Swepco report with lower viscosity on an oil that started it's life thicker, a lower flashpoint, and more copper wear isn't as good a report as the previous ones. The 3/10 report where you went 5,450 miles and shows more metal wear and lower viscosity that's actually just below range than the other Motul reports tells you that with your use case and driving style, 5,450 miles is too long an interval for Motul. Dial it back to 5,000 or 4,500 and see what the reports look like.
When analyzing my UOA reports from my car and my wife's even though we run the same oil (DT40) that's how I came to the conclusion that 5,000 miles is fine for her interval, but with the supercharger and the way I drive mine, my interval needs to be 4,000 miles to achieve similar results.
As I mentioned, you need to stick with one oil and start building trends in order to be able to utilize the information from the UOA reports, but that oil shouldn't be the Swepco - pick a 5W/40 you're comfortable with, like the Motul, or the one I'm comfortable with (DT40).
ZDDP is overblown as today modern oils have other additive formulations to compensate for lower ZDDP. The key to it all is to match the oil used in your motor to the way you drive. Consider short runs vs long ones, low effort vs high effort at high temps.
Motul 8100 Xcess 5W40 is a great European oil and known in the high-performance motorbike community for its low high-temp shear. In Germany, though Liqui Moly is a top notch brand with great reputation, and it has been reported that, being a smaller company, they control the consistency of their blends and oil stocks better than others. Some of their oils have molybdenum, a solid lubricant which permeates all moving parts and stays on their surface for great protection in cold starts. For water-cooled Porsches their recommended lubrication is Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40 and an addition of their molybdenum disulfide MozS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment.
I have been using MoS2 along with Motul for years and noticed a quieter and smoother idle. Recently I also started using Leightlauf replacing Motul.
@LexVan and @Petza914 - they recommended Swepco after I told them I was concerned about high oil temps (245F) and sluggish oil pressure when ripping through the Los Padres forest on the way back from LA this summer. They recommended Swepco 15W50, but said I should start with 15W40.
In the end I switched back to Motul. It sounds like from your commends and the data that was the right call. I will take Pete's advice and push the next change to 4k miles and share the results with everyone.
OP, is your latest report Swepco 308 or 310? It'd be helpful to know which one. Both are intended for use in heavy duty diesel applications. Here are a few comments about the points you bring up (Full Disclosure: I'm in my 21st year as an AMSOIL dealer, and have used those products exclusively on all my cars since 1998. I'm not a credentialed Lubrication Engineer but have performed many oil samples over same period).
1. Zinc, Phosphorus and Moly are all additive metals in Swepco's formulation. Higher levels of ZDDP can affect emissions control components (like say cats) and is not necessarily a good thing.
2. Silicon is normally dirt passing through intake system. I agree with you that the small increase seen previously is from the sealant used.
3. Aluminum at 6ppm is normal, as is the case with the other wear metals. I think your engine's in fine shape.
4. The oil viscosity sheared (decreased) out of 40 into 30 (range for 30 viscosity is 9.3<12.5 cSt). Swepco 308 starts out at 15.34; the 310 oil starts out at 15.14. Viscosity stability is important to protecting motors.
5. TR means Trace. Higher amounts are usually caused by fuel injectors leaking excess fuel past the rings into the sump. That excess fuel will decrease viscosity.
My oil of choice for my '09 Carrera. This oil carries Porsche A40 factory approval. I'm about 500 miles away from first oil sample on this, and will post when complete.
I put the same stuff in my car and will also be doing an analysis in a month or two. I've had nothing but good luck with amsoil products fwiw and I can appreciate how they are transparent with their science. Heck I just wish they mad more products! Also blackstone has caught a head gasket leak on my old Honda and bearing wear on the s54 m3.
11-28-2018, 11:23 PM
Head to Head Oil Report: Motul vs Swepco vs Pentosin
