Thinking aloud: would you trade your 997.2 for an M2 Comp.
12-01-2018, 06:54 PM
#31
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Yeah, I agree, but looking into those options, it is almost $9k to bring the car up to snuff. That seems like a lot for a car that sold for $110k back in 2009.
A $110k car (997.2 4S) that is branded as a sportscar should be at GT4 levels out of the box, no? After all, the GT4 only stickered at $104k, and that is 7 years later than the $110k C4S. The engines are identical, gearbox is better in the GT4, and it has carbon buckets; they have been using the 997 chassis since 1999 and have long since recouped all development costs, and therefore price can't be a consideration of the 4S' lower levels of engagement.
I wouldn't say the C4S is any more comfortable; only much less engaging. The GT4 is sharper, more visceral, and more involving in every way. Outside of it being a big nosier, it is just as good or better on the highway too.
After driving the GT4, my first comment was "wow, this is what I always assumed a 911 drove like". Then again, if I get back into a M-car (such as the M4), any 911 is much more involving than the M-car.
I suppose I don't understand why the GT4 setup isn't available in a standard Carrera. Not everyone wants a $175k track-ready car like the GT3, but a comp version of a base or C2S with GT3 suspension, less sound deadening, and a better 6MT box out of the GT4 would be special.
I thought that was the car that the 911T was supposed to be, but from what I hear, it isn't. I have driven a 991.2 with SPASM and 7MT back to back to the GT4, and the suspension is nothing alike. Maybe the "T" is more than that, but from what I have heard, it isn't. I suppose it does Porsche good to push people into the much more expensive GT3 platform if they are considering a 911, but not everyone has $160k+ to spend on a car.
I digress however! Back to the topic at hand, I don't know if I would shell out $60k for an M2. $35k? Sure! $20k for a 135i manual? I would be all over that!
A $110k car (997.2 4S) that is branded as a sportscar should be at GT4 levels out of the box, no? After all, the GT4 only stickered at $104k, and that is 7 years later than the $110k C4S. The engines are identical, gearbox is better in the GT4, and it has carbon buckets; they have been using the 997 chassis since 1999 and have long since recouped all development costs, and therefore price can't be a consideration of the 4S' lower levels of engagement.
I wouldn't say the C4S is any more comfortable; only much less engaging. The GT4 is sharper, more visceral, and more involving in every way. Outside of it being a big nosier, it is just as good or better on the highway too.
After driving the GT4, my first comment was "wow, this is what I always assumed a 911 drove like". Then again, if I get back into a M-car (such as the M4), any 911 is much more involving than the M-car.
I suppose I don't understand why the GT4 setup isn't available in a standard Carrera. Not everyone wants a $175k track-ready car like the GT3, but a comp version of a base or C2S with GT3 suspension, less sound deadening, and a better 6MT box out of the GT4 would be special.
I thought that was the car that the 911T was supposed to be, but from what I hear, it isn't. I have driven a 991.2 with SPASM and 7MT back to back to the GT4, and the suspension is nothing alike. Maybe the "T" is more than that, but from what I have heard, it isn't. I suppose it does Porsche good to push people into the much more expensive GT3 platform if they are considering a 911, but not everyone has $160k+ to spend on a car.
I digress however! Back to the topic at hand, I don't know if I would shell out $60k for an M2. $35k? Sure! $20k for a 135i manual? I would be all over that!
Luckily you and your wife have both platforms where you get to experience either on demand.
Interesting what you're hearing about the 911T as I thought the same as you as to the target. However, it's also built on the 991 platform which isn't going to feel like a 997 either so if it was 997 guys drivi g that car and comparing it, that might explain the opinions expressed.
12-01-2018, 06:54 PM
#32
Three Wheelin'
Absolutely not. I'm not sure how you'd come to that conclusion. It's not so much about price as it is the intended use. a GT4 is focused on its sporting characteristics. A Carrera 4S is not. For one its not a motorsports focused car like any GT2/3/4. Even at significantly more cost a 911 Turbo will still lack the sporting focus of a GT4 no matter what factory options you equip the 911 Turbo with. They just don't have the same purpose. Regardless which is faster or costs more, a Porsche sports car that is designed to be used on track as its primary function is going to be in a different class as far as handling and response. C4/Targa/Turbo are at the far end of the spectrum opposite GT2/3/4. Nothing wrong with any of those cars, they are all fantastic and will be great on track, where a GT2/3/4 will be more focused all the time even in its most basic spec. Even a GTS (Carrera or Cayman) will not give the same kind of responsiveness or sporting focus as a GT4 without attention to the suspension.
12-06-2018, 02:06 AM
#33
Advanced
Probably not. I don't want to be mistaken for a junior college student. No CF roof, which should be standard for this sub-model at the prices they are asking. Crappy basic looking interior. No special seats or special parts.
12-06-2018, 02:46 AM
#34
Nordschleife Master
I haven't driven an M2.
I owned a 135i M-sport and would buy another in a heartbeat. It was a very fun car, and a heck of a bargain for under $20k.
I have to say; my 997.2 feels VERY pedestrian compared to my wife's GT4. That car is what I had hoped the C4S would feel like, but doesn't. The GT4 feels like a true sports car: the suspension, shifter feel, engine sound, and balance are sublime. It is a special car. It isn't that the GT4 is faster, but it is significantly more involving, like what the 911 used to be and has moved away from since the 993 models went away.
Then again, one is a $55k car, and one is a $90k car. Not exactly apples to apples. The GT4 beats the crap out of any $90k 991 on the market too as well, if you want an involving sports car and not a GT car.
I think the sweet spot is something cheaper and older from BMW, like a 135iM or a E46 M3.
I owned a 135i M-sport and would buy another in a heartbeat. It was a very fun car, and a heck of a bargain for under $20k.
I have to say; my 997.2 feels VERY pedestrian compared to my wife's GT4. That car is what I had hoped the C4S would feel like, but doesn't. The GT4 feels like a true sports car: the suspension, shifter feel, engine sound, and balance are sublime. It is a special car. It isn't that the GT4 is faster, but it is significantly more involving, like what the 911 used to be and has moved away from since the 993 models went away.
Then again, one is a $55k car, and one is a $90k car. Not exactly apples to apples. The GT4 beats the crap out of any $90k 991 on the market too as well, if you want an involving sports car and not a GT car.
I think the sweet spot is something cheaper and older from BMW, like a 135iM or a E46 M3.
12-06-2018, 09:41 AM
#35
I was actually looking at them on autotrader. I'm not sure why, but they do appeal to me. I test drove a regular M2 and when I got into the 997, I forgot all about it. I love me some turbos, though.
12-06-2018, 12:34 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
I only look once a while for E46 M3 street/track car for much lower running cost track alternative to my C2S. But almost right away my brain ais: for $30k I would rather get base 2014 Cayman.
12-06-2018, 10:11 PM
#37
Pro
(I am not thinking of doing this, BTW! Just curious what others think)
I saw a 2019 M2 the other day, and I have to say, it looked much more impressive than the first-gen M2. It was a muscular, good-looking car, and seems downright "affordable" compared to 911 standards.
With that said, would you consider trading your 997.2 for one, assuming a straight-across trade (55-60k or so value of each car)? Why or why not?
My wife has an M4 and we are saying sayonara to it, as we are picking up a used A4 Avant as a cheaper, more practical vehicle. The M4 is a good DD, but BIG for an M-car, yet not that practical. I wonder if the m2 retains more of a sportscar feel along the lines of the 997. The M4 is somewhat in that grey area of "car with only 4 seats and lacking cargo space to be a family vehicle, but not 911 sportiness".
I saw a 2019 M2 the other day, and I have to say, it looked much more impressive than the first-gen M2. It was a muscular, good-looking car, and seems downright "affordable" compared to 911 standards.
With that said, would you consider trading your 997.2 for one, assuming a straight-across trade (55-60k or so value of each car)? Why or why not?
My wife has an M4 and we are saying sayonara to it, as we are picking up a used A4 Avant as a cheaper, more practical vehicle. The M4 is a good DD, but BIG for an M-car, yet not that practical. I wonder if the m2 retains more of a sportscar feel along the lines of the 997. The M4 is somewhat in that grey area of "car with only 4 seats and lacking cargo space to be a family vehicle, but not 911 sportiness".
12-10-2018, 07:20 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Porsche > BMW .
(I am not thinking of doing this, BTW! Just curious what others think)
I saw a 2019 M2 the other day, and I have to say, it looked much more impressive than the first-gen M2. It was a muscular, good-looking car, and seems downright "affordable" compared to 911 standards.
With that said, would you consider trading your 997.2 for one, assuming a straight-across trade (55-60k or so value of each car)? Why or why not?
My wife has an M4 and we are saying sayonara to it, as we are picking up a used A4 Avant as a cheaper, more practical vehicle. The M4 is a good DD, but BIG for an M-car, yet not that practical. I wonder if the m2 retains more of a sportscar feel along the lines of the 997. The M4 is somewhat in that grey area of "car with only 4 seats and lacking cargo space to be a family vehicle, but not 911 sportiness".
I saw a 2019 M2 the other day, and I have to say, it looked much more impressive than the first-gen M2. It was a muscular, good-looking car, and seems downright "affordable" compared to 911 standards.
With that said, would you consider trading your 997.2 for one, assuming a straight-across trade (55-60k or so value of each car)? Why or why not?
My wife has an M4 and we are saying sayonara to it, as we are picking up a used A4 Avant as a cheaper, more practical vehicle. The M4 is a good DD, but BIG for an M-car, yet not that practical. I wonder if the m2 retains more of a sportscar feel along the lines of the 997. The M4 is somewhat in that grey area of "car with only 4 seats and lacking cargo space to be a family vehicle, but not 911 sportiness".
I now have a 997.2 C4S manual tranny . . . . . Since owning Porsches, I have developed an increased appreciation for several/many other cars. I really like the M2, it is a great driving car.
The Porsche 997.2 and the BMW M2 comp are different cars. In different leagues. Climbing into an M2 is quite different; compared to a 911 (or Cayman) it is like a sedan - high off the ground. The 911 sits lower and feels far more purposeful. As a middle aged Dude, it is much easier to get out of an M2; the 911 sits lower and feels much better. The build quality is quite different outside and in. To drive the two is night and day.
If a person buys an M2, new, they are buying a ~$65k car. If a person buys a 997.2 C2S/C4S, they are buying a $100k-$115k car . . . . the difference is very apparent in drive and build quality, along with fit and finish. For those who look at Nurburgring #'s, the old 997.2 C2S is/was faster than the newer M2 Comp. The 997 GTS is faster yet.
With all of that said, the M2 is a car that delivers a very exciting drive. It is not, however, a 911, or even an E46 M3.