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997.2 clutch fail

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Old 11-28-2018 | 08:13 AM
  #16  
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I suspect clutch master and/or slave cylinder problem. Put someone else in car (engine off) to work clutch pedal while you watch for slave cylinder operation. I think this could be done quickly by removing LR wheel to observe.
Old 11-28-2018 | 09:18 AM
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Double check your electrical connections. How does the clutch feel when in idle?

The PSM failure is because you had the battery disconnected. It will clear on its own within 1 mile of driving.

Great photos, by the way. Really nice work. I heard of some people having trouble with the plastic clutch alignment tool but it sounds like you worked through that without a problem.
Old 11-28-2018 | 02:19 PM
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Amazing job! I originally was planning to change on jack stands but my indy told me it was cruel and unusual punishment. Way to go to get it done!

As for the alignment the transmission, yea that was an issue with mine as well. I had put some notes in my writeup about it. My indy said some going in on the first shot no issues and others take 15 mins of fiddling. What we found to work best jacking the engine as well to ensure they were on an even plane.

As jeebus31 mentioned, the PSM failure will clear itself after a minute or so of driving. Mine is typically cleared by the time I get out of the garage.

As for the other issue, I would second SwingWings comment to focus around the slave cylinder. If you are able to move through the gears it sounds like the cables are attached ok. However if the clutch isn't engaging then it would seem to me the slave cylinder piston isn't engaging your clutch release arm - assuming that's not still sitting on the workbench :-)

Did you remove the slave cylinder from the tranny while keeping the hydraulic line on, or do you remove the hydraulic line and keep the slave cylinder on the tranny? If the latter, did you bleed the system after reattaching?
Old 12-01-2018 | 01:21 PM
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Hi all. Thank you so much for your input and trouble shooting suggestions. I was just as unsure of how or why 'I screwed up' or maybe it was the hydraulics?

I would like to give a special shoutout to Aaron from Rennpart.com. I bought my clutch kit from him (with Rennlist discount) and he was awesome, first when I was unsure about the pp drill hole issue, and then I reached out to him for expert advise on why I might have this problem. He asked if I was sure I had aligned the three dowels on the flywheel with the pp and at that moment I realized, in the fog of battle I had not noticed those dowels and that it was consistent with my unsure recollection that the friction disc was able to move still after torque down. You can see or might notice in the pp pic above in this thread that the dowels are not aligned. Just goes to show I am more of a monkey than a mechanic, but my wife tried to make me feel better, she says it is not my day job. Aaron also suggested that I could pull the slave and that would rule out hydraulics but I knew another clutch job was in my future, or I would send it out, but no I am going to finnish this! Anyways, Aaron from Rennpart.com is awesome and I wish him every success. So the following are my observations of a clutch job, second time around.

This clutch job was all business, no marveling at german engineering and quality and cleaning this and that, I left the wheels on and removed the rear and center bottom panels. It actually took me 4 methodical hours to drop the tranny and in fact I had the tranny back up by the end of the day! I did not use the 2"by8" to raise the car to 25". I simply raised the car to the max height of the esco jack stands (love them), and then my tranny jack was able to reach, and when lowered down could be maneuvered under the car but the bell housing must remain within the tunnel. It was actually a better working height while lying on the creeper. There is very little work to be done on the tranny side and there is enough room for me to sit in front of engine and re and re the pp. If I do the clutch only job again, I would do it this way. I am 6' and about 185lbs and pretty flexible for an older guy haha, but honestly if I were 6'3" or 220lbs it really would be cruel and unusual punishment and using a lift would be good advise.

IMO the plastic alignment tool works fine combined with eyeballing and finger feel as detailed above. I had more trouble this time mating tranny. It took me 3 times lowering tranny and adjusting as well as adjusting engine height/angle, and third time lucky, she popped right in. I thought I would try the tranny collar saddled over the tranny on the way up, but it just got in the way mating the tranny/engine. After tranny/engine mated and bolted (except bottom two bolts), just make sure you have the maximum clearance at front of tranny and loosen the cooling hose straps that get in the way of the tranny collar. The collar seemed go in pretty easy.So that was a day (about a 10 hour day).
I thought the next day would be pretty straight forward putting everything back together, but I had a lot of trouble with the slave. I had again left the hydraulics connected because I did not want to bleed the clutch. I don't mind bleeding hydraulics, but I am unsure of this return line system. So I tried various tools (short screwdriver, short narrow machine chisel etc) to achieve adequate purchase to lever the slave to position. I lowered the tranny a bit for better access. My forearms were a bit worse for the wear and tear. Eventually I was successful and I was able to get a very small screwdriver into the bottom hole and then also top hole and then a larger size punch similar in diameter to screw so that slave was fully home and I could screw it into place. It is that tough.
So my clutch works and feels perfect now. I think qikqbn is correct in that this clutch failed at <18k mi because it spent all its life in the congested hilly roads of the Hollywood Hills. That is probably why the original owner moved up to a beautiful orange PDK 991 GTS targa. I have right of refusal on that one haha.
Thats it. Love this forum, hope some of this helps others (don't forget those dowels haha).




Old 12-01-2018 | 03:08 PM
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Great job Rick. Glad you got it up and running. I am excited to take on this project when it comes my way. I was thinking initially that I would just tow it to an Indy, but that is 2 hours away. Yes I will be doing it your way with jack stands and blocks of wood. Like most people on here I could easily afford to pay some to do it and definitely would if I lived in the cold north and I needed a clutch in the winter. Honestly though Rick you must have a great sense of pride that you did it all yourself. That is why I take on these types of projects. To have fun figuring it out and of course an excuse to buy more tools. LOL. It is not my day job, but growing up in Detroit working on cars is in my blood. It probably does help that I am an engineer and think that way to just figure things out. I love doing stuff like this and learning as I go. Sometimes failure is the greatest teacher. Now I know that I will make sure to see those pins when I pull mine apart. Great work and thanks for the write up and links to others experience doing the same. It will definitely help me when my day comes.
Old 12-01-2018 | 05:22 PM
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Really, really impressive work. Congrats, and enjoy the ride!
Old 12-01-2018 | 09:38 PM
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Thanks Brian and jeebus31. Went for a drive today, and as always this beast puts a smile on my face, always.
Cheers Rick
Old 12-02-2018 | 01:40 PM
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Great job! Dont feel bad. Reminds me of the time I put the AC clutch bearing in the freezer overnight only to realize the next morning it was the old bearing, not the new one...
Old 12-03-2018 | 01:56 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by rickscarrera4
Hi all. Thank you so much for your input and trouble shooting suggestions. I was just as unsure of how or why 'I screwed up' or maybe it was the hydraulics?
Love this forum, hope some of this helps others (don't forget those dowels haha).
Thank you for the kind words Rick. I am glad that you were able to fix the issue. We have all made mistakes but this story has a happy ending.

The feeling of accomplishment that comes after fixing something broken is one of the reasons I got into the parts and repair business, it is very gratifying to be of service to members here!

PS: I wish that all the transmissions we had to pull were as clean as yours!!!
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Old 08-21-2019 | 12:08 AM
  #25  
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Where are these 3 dowel pins you speak of exactly?
Old 08-21-2019 | 12:59 AM
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Yeah. Need pictures. I have clutch job likely in the next 5-10k miles. I’m at 50k now.

Any good alternatives to Sachs?

Originally Posted by doclouie
Where are these 3 dowel pins you speak of exactly?
Old 08-23-2019 | 12:02 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by workhurts
Yeah. Need pictures. I have clutch job likely in the next 5-10k miles. I’m at 50k now.

Any good alternatives to Sachs?
Not sure about alternates to Sachs. I like the way my clutch feels, no complaints.
The three dowls I have refered to are pictured above, on the flywheel. I did not intially line up the pressure plate holes to/onto those three pins you can see on the flywheel, and therefore when it all went together the clutch could not engage as the pressure plate did not mate up with flywheel. In hindsight, it was easy to miss during the 'fog of battle', but that will not happen to you!
cheers
Old 03-22-2020 | 09:23 PM
  #28  
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Here are the three dowel pins he was speaking of.



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