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Hello all
I have <20K mi. on my new to me pretty immaculate 2010 Carrera4 Cab. Driving the 'other' day I experienced what may be a not uncommon clutch fail, very similar to what some others have posted. The clutch pedel seemed to release differently in a difficult to describe way and from that moment the clutch would not fully engage/disengage. It is difficult to put into gear from a stop and the car will creep forward, and if I apply a somewhat heavy accel, the clutch will slip. The clutch pedal feels pretty normal and with the engine off I can move thru the gears normally.
I have the car up on jack stands and have removed the under panels. Everything looks like new and no leaks from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder. The linkage is all good. I was hoping for a failed slave cylinder but am more inclined to believe some of the pressure plate fingers or release bearing have failed. Before I begin a clutch replacement project I would like to rule out the hydraulic fail option first. Does anyone with 997.2 clutch experience have an opinion on how I might rule out the slave cylinder or test its function? Since it is a closed loop system, and I do not see any leaks I am not sure if there is any value in attempting a clutch bleed?
My previous pcar was a 2000 996 C2 Cab and last year I changed the clutch, flywheel, RMS,IMS, AOS, so I am not really looking forward to a clutch job so soon. Many thanks for any opinions.
Hello all
I have <20K mi. on my new to me pretty immaculate 2010 Carrera4 Cab. Driving the 'other' day I experienced what may be a not uncommon clutch fail, very similar to what some others have posted. The clutch pedel seemed to release differently in a difficult to describe way and from that moment the clutch would not fully engage/disengage. It is difficult to put into gear from a stop and the car will creep forward, and if I apply a somewhat heavy accel, the clutch will slip. The clutch pedal feels pretty normal and with the engine off I can move thru the gears normally.
I have the car up on jack stands and have removed the under panels. Everything looks like new and no leaks from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder. The linkage is all good. I was hoping for a failed slave cylinder but am more inclined to believe some of the pressure plate fingers or release bearing have failed. Before I begin a clutch replacement project I would like to rule out the hydraulic fail option first. Does anyone with 997.2 clutch experience have an opinion on how I might rule out the slave cylinder or test its function? Since it is a closed loop system, and I do not see any leaks I am not sure if there is any value in attempting a clutch bleed?
My previous pcar was a 2000 996 C2 Cab and last year I changed the clutch, flywheel, RMS,IMS, AOS, so I am not really looking forward to a clutch job so soon. Many thanks for any opinions.
Sorry, Don't have a 997.2, but I had almost identical symptoms when I blew my clutch. Engaged differently, hard to put into first gear, and clutch slippage with too much throttle. I am a pretty aggressive driver so my clutch gave up the ghost 2 ways and almost simultaneously. About 2 days before it blew I noticed the engagement felt different in the pedal travel. Then I starting noticing it was difficult to put into 1st gear. The straw that broke the camels back was when I aggressively downshifted to make a pass and boom... instantly started slipping the clutch. Limped it home and then to my mechanics.
I replaced all the usual stuff you should when doing a clutch and "while your in there", but the main problem was:
1. Broken pressure plate fingers.
2. As a side affect of the fingers braking the slave cylinder was heavily damaged at the same time.
Mine happened at 56k miles. 20k miles sounds extremely low to me for this to happen. So the problem might be common, but that mileage is the lowest I have heard of in a while for this to happen.
Hope you get it fixed soon!
My 997.2 clutch fail story here.... may help. The S, I think, has a different, self adjusting, clutch and fails a bit differently... if it is different than a base (used to be).
20k miles is very early but it depends on the PO's driving style and city vs highway miles. My indy said they see plenty of cars from SF that go through clutches every 30k miles.
As some have mentioned, the fingers on the pressure plate are a weak point on these cars (although I am not sure if the 997.2 has a different design from the 997.1). At 50k miles I hit a pothole going 20mph with the clutch pedal partially depressed and heard a knock. Immediately after I felt a very slight vibration in the clutch pedal whenever I would press it. The clutch wasn't slipping yet but I knew something was wrong.
Without pulling the transmission there isn't much you can do to diagnose so my indy first wanted to check the slave cylinder. A common issue with these cars is the rubber boot on the slave cylinder piston dries out with age and cracks off. This allows the metal piston to rub on the metal release arm, which eventually can score it up and lead to a weird feeling in the clutch pedal. Mine had cracked off but unfortunately that didnt solve my problem. A day later I finally started to feel the clutch slip so we pulled the transmission.
What we found was the clutch disk was fine but one of the arms on the pressure plate had cracked. What I suspect is when I hit the pothole with the clutch pedal depressed the throw bearing was able to knock against the pressure plate and crack a finger. So note to self: keep the car in gear when going over bumpy roads.
Anyway, you can see my writeup here as well as a thread for how to replace the clutch yourself if you are so inclined. If you have a lift and a friend to help its not too hard of a job and teaches you a lot about the car. I would not attempt on jackstands. As my indy said, thats cruel and unusual punishment.
Thanks for the replies and links guys. I have read them all. I have pulled the slave cylinder today without disconnecting the hydraulics and the unit appears normal. There are no leaks and the slave piston can be compressed as when the clutch pedal is pressed.
I also suspect a damaged pressure plate. Pretty disappointing considering the car has less than 20k mi. I will be pulling the tranny and changing the clutch and will post as I go along hopefully for the benefit of others.
Cheers Rick
oops, did not mean for this slave cylinder image is so big, sorry
Good news on the slave cylinder, bad news on the clutch. But if you do it yourself its pretty cheap. I think I picked up the Sachs clutch kit from Vertex for something like $600 or 700.
The link I posted above had the tips and tricks I learned from my indy. I've also attached a checklist I put together before the job. It seems daunting but we had the first 5 pages of steps done in 20 mins.
When the fingers on the PP is cracked, you can tell from the clutch pedal. It would engage normally at the first part of the travel and then the pressure would decrease and your foot will feel like something is twisting out of the way at the end of the pedal travel. It's time for a clutch job. If you have a leaky RMS, now is the time. Bit at 20K miles, probably not.
Hello all. I have removed my tranny and clutch...yes using jack stands. I followed the shop manual and the posts in this thread. The DIY instructions by rotmilky, Yves, and the Bruce are outstanding and capture the whole process (even emotional) fully. For a clutch change, everything you need in terms of instruction is all here in this thread with links.
So I have my Tranny and clutch out. I cannot see any obvious fail or wear in the PP, Friction plate. The release bearing does have wear and I wonder if this amount of wear is the culprit. Picture attached.
I am ready to install new Sachs oem clutch but I see a flaw in the PP and I am not sure if I should install. Looks like Sachs missed on the quality control. It is a drill hole approximately 5mm wide and 2-3 mm deep, pic included. I am worried that this flaw will cause premature wear of the friction disc, what do you guys think? Its a long weekend and it looks like I may not get an opinion from the supplier til monday. Was hoping to put it back together this weekend. Many thanks. Rick
Great job! Im not sure about that hole. I dont recall having one on mine but may be a different part # for the .2 vs .1.
As for the clutch, did you check all the fingers on the pressure plate for hairline cracks? We didnt spot mine at first but once we got it on the table we were able to spot the crack.
Just speculating on why this low mileage clutch is in this condition, especially the worn out throw out bearing. My only conclusion is that this car was previously driven in heavy stop and go traffic for most of it's life. If this car had a short commute, but was in stop and go traffic that would explain the wear and tear. The amount of time that clutch was used and depressed in order to fail at 20k may have been due to a much higher than average use considering the average clutch life of say 50-60k. just speculating. Great to see you tackle this job on your own. You get major wrenching points for that
Hello all and thank you for your comments.
I have completed the clutch change and brought the car back to earth last night, and started her up today...more on that in my next post(and the advise I will ask for).
Regarding the clutch change, as I have stated before, the DIY's linked on this thread cover it all very well and I have only a few comments to add. I used the Esco jack stands and they are great, but not high enough to bring a tranny in and out on a tranny jack. For that I required 25" of height. I jacked the car using two floor jacks as detailed on this forum. Eventually I used two layers of side by side 2" by 8" of the appropriate lengths for the jack stands and the floor jacks and then under the car so that the tranny jack could reach. Once the tranny was on the tranny jack and lowered, both going out and in, I had to remove or climb those 2"by8" in order to roll the tranny in and out(thank you son for helping). While the car was up I supported the engine with jack stands and two layers of 2"by4" and shims along the forward side of the oil sump, as well as floor jack. A little hokey and tedious I know, and actually a physical marathon, a real challenge all around to be proud of. A pro garage shop would be so much better.
The new pressure plate had a small shallow drill hole and that turned out to be nothing except I deburred the tiny edge. On aligning the friction disk, using the plastic alignment tool, eyeball and finger feel the gap(as pictured) worked perfect.
On preparing the tranny for install I spent time ensuring the bell housing sat plum and level and strapped tight on tranny jack for easy alignment. Way better than trying to manipulate the tranny for alignment, its heavy. With the requisite man handling the tranny slipped into position pretty easy. On the infamous tranny collar, this was a MAJOR pain. I had it in my head it was 'smooth side' aft and I put it in wrong.Installing and removing and installing is so frustrating and I cannot explain in words the manipulation required to position the collar. Perseverance. The tranny must be lowered the maximum 25mm and as for collar orientation, notice on the removal, and the shape of arms to allow for the shift cables.
So this is last night with wheels on and I am ready to bring this girl back to earth, slowly and carefully!
cheers
Hi all
So I could really use some opinions here. I started my c4 this morning anxious to test my new clutch. Before start w/o clutch, I can manipulate thru all the gears and I can hear the transmission click into each gear very nicely. I started the car and I have a 'PSM failure'. I have the durametric tool and I will attempt to clear the warning tomorrow. With the car idling, and clutch in, I can move thru all gears like butter and I was becoming happy. But when I released the clutch the car did not move, not only that, but with the car at idle, without the clutch, I can move thru all the gears w/o effect. This seems to be a new problem separate from the clutch. I will lift the car tomorrow. I am pretty sure the shift cables are connected since I hear and feel the tranny click into gears w engine off, although I admit to manipulating the cables in what I thought were manageable bends. Could it be one of the two electric connections I did not make good? If I can solve this problem, maybe my clutch will work. How can an engine idle and the gear shift lever can move between gears without effect? Appreciate any opinions, thanks.
Rick
11-12-2018, 05:38 PM
997.2 clutch fail
