Prairiedawg

I'm looking for thoughts on a car I am/was going to look at buying that's semi local to me. It's a 2011 C4S with low miles but the history is well...ambiguous. It looks very nicely optioned and I'm genuinely interested in it but when I put the VIN into google some questionable things come up here,
https://www.google.com/search?q=WP0C...hrome&ie=UTF-8
The first thing that pops up is the VIN Analytics page with the options list,
https://vinanalytics.com/car/WP0CB2A...99BS754392.pdf

So far so good. The next search querry is this

WP0CB2A99BS754392, Original gray Porsche 911 at SAN ANTONIO ...
https://www.salvagebid.com/979954395-2011-porsche-911/

Vin – WP0CB2A99BS754392: Bid and win 2011 PORSCHE 911 6 Cyl for sale at SAN ANTONIO, TX by December 31, 1969. Bid and win clean and salvage ..

That's a bit concerning. I called my bank to run a Carfax on it and it comes up clean. I don't have a lot of faith in Carfax as one of my cars was rear ended many years ago and has a clean Carfax. I called my insurance company to inquire about any ways they may have to see if its been in any accidents, etc. They told me all they could check for was if it was salvaged, which the could find no record of. I thought well, that's good.

Interestingly the Carfax shows it's been around the block a lot through many dealers and the current owner has only had it for a few months. Kind of raises an eyebrow but things happen. I kept going through the Google querries which were mostly gagrbage VIN lookup sites but stumbled on this one https://www.salvagedb.com/search?q=W...Mhi07B8-dwAVIN
WP0CB2A99BS75439
Title ORIGINAL-TX
Odometer 8474
Odometer Status ACTUAL
Primary Damage COLLISION
Secondary Damage NONE

Well that matches the texas title and the time frame which it was sold according to Carfax:

6/01/2014 Texas Motor Vehicle Dept San Antonio, TX Title #01541241510102003 Registration issued or renewed Loan or lien reported Passed safety inspection Vehicle color noted as Black
01/26/2015 8,473 Red McCombs Ford San Antonio, TX 855-220-4869 saford2.com Vehicle serviced
02/18/2015 Texas Motor Vehicle Dept. San Antonio, TX Title #28695342051006252 Title issued or updated Vehicle color noted as Black Loan or lien released
04/29/2015 EuroWorks San Antonio, TX 210-685-6659 Oil and filter changed Oil pressure sender/switch replaced
04/30/2015 9,000 Dealer Inventory Vehicle offered for sale


I could attribute the salvage sites as internet garbage but it kind of adds up but doesn't explain a lot either.
The final eye opener was when I found this, The date stamped on the photo (2/19/15) is the day after the title was updated 2'18/15)

And here is the car for sale,

I think this car may have a hard life based on the first picture but nothing is officially documented. I don't know how to post the Carfax but can if possible if someone wants to scrutinize it.
I think I'm mostly looking for an explanation that would indicate how a beautiful C4S could be pictured filthy in a Texas salvage lot but have a perfectly legitimate reason. Everything screams stay away from this one but the build sheet is excellent. Considering the owner is asking market price .......

Looking for thoughts and answers.

Bob williams

If in doubt, I would leave it. I share your concerns when the second item on Google showed. The same will be true of any potential buyers in the future who do some research as you have.

cannonball05

I would move on as Bob said. There are others to be found without the worry.

linderpat

Well, I would never trust Carfax. People put way too much stock into that report. First and foremost, it's a marketing tool. It can only show you something negative, and the absence of a negative should never be used to infer a positive. Not everyone reports their work to Carfax, in fact, according to my body shop, almost no independents do. So there's that.

Second, you have enough information to know that this car has led a hard life. Passed through many hands. It seems certain the two pictures are of the same car.

So, what do you do? As a well optioned car, it has value. As a car with apparent history, that affects value. I would lay it all out to the seller, and suggest that market price for this car is not justified. Maybe salvage isn't either, so meet somewhere in between, but subject to a satisfactory ppi. Personally, I would move on and look for something with a known history.

rap

Prairiedawg

Thanks for your help and thoughts in this. It's good to hear confirmation that my instincts are correct. Sometimes you need disinterested parties to look at what you have found and comment. I'm trying to be an unemotional buyer with a good car when there can be a legitemate explanation for these discrepancies. I don't want to walk away from a good spec-ed car (its only missing PSE for me if I can be honest), if there's a rational explanation. Though the picture of the salvage lot doesn't inspire confidence.

Also concerning to me is the current owners have only had this thing for a few months and and has spent more time and miles bouncing between dealer lots. The car is a two hour drive away from me and I'm not sure there are many or any places to get a proper PPI, as its a ways away from any major metro area. There is a local Porsche dealer there but I think the seller is a customer there. Not sure where the dealers loyalties would lie. I would like to believe that all car dealers are bastions of integrity but I live in the real world.

Prairiedawg

Uh, somehow I missed this on the Carfax

09/17/2015 Texas Motor Vehicle Dept. Vehicle reported stolen Vehicle color noted as Black

09/17/2015 12,123 Texas Motor Vehicle Dept. McAllen, TX Title# 01521842255171238 Title issued or updated Vehicle color noted as Black

03/18/2016 Stolen Report Vehicle recovered after theft

03/30/2017 14,033 Dealer Inventory Vehicle offered for sale

Fined

Depending on use case, how long you plan to keep it, and how good of a deal you can get.. I wouldn't immediately pitch it out for having been stolen. If I could buy it for 10-15k (that could be 25% depending on which 997.2 Carrera it is) under the going rate and planned to keep it, I might have PPI done and consider it. At or near regular price, no way.

linderpat

I agree Fined, altho the OP said it was being offered for sale at market price. I assume that he meant market price for a non-stolen car without lots of missing/shady history. I'd walk unless it is a screaming deal. I'd still want a ppi as everyone knows, there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche!

sandwedge

Man....this story makes my head spin. Stolen and then recovered. Offered for sale as a salvage if executed by December 1969 ( Bid and win 2011 PORSCHE 911 6 Cyl for sale at SAN ANTONIO, TX by December 31, 1969. Bid and win clean and salvage .. ). Then no Carfax history and somehow the salvage thing goes away even though captured in a photo. And why the mention of salvage in the first place? Not explained.

With a reliable third party PPI and and an equally reliable report of this car's actual history, I might (strong emphasis on might) consider it at a drastic discount to market. Short of that I don't see why it should even be considered. The history you've dug up, garbage, partially accurate or otherwise will stay with the car forever no matter what the actual story is.

captainbaker

If, If, IF...I would buy a branded titled car, I would only buy a theft recovery. At best, the car could have been swiped and left in a warehouse waiting for some sort of Onstar. After 30 days, the owner is paid out and the car is branded. But is it really a junker???

If everything checks out and you want to hold onto it for the long haul, congrats.

Prairiedawg

I notified the owner (private seller) that I'm not interested. Too much drama with this one. I suspect there is something wrong with it because the current and previous owner both are selling the car with less than 6 months ownership. At this point even with a solid PPI I would always wonder. I kind of feel bad that I posted this stuff about it and its here on the internet forever and will follow the car to the detriment of the current owner but nothing made sense until I saw the theft report. It was the top item on the 2nd page, just a single line item. Skimmed right past it.

I think the December, 1969 must be a typo or something. The strangest thing is none of the dates make sense. The watermark on the picture says Feb, 2015 but the Carfax indicates 9/2015. Its reasonable to think the Carfax is wrong but the collision warning matches up with that date.???

Yes, they are asking current market price, $62,000 which is what the asking price was when they bought it based on the google archives from what I can tell. Google is your friend..sometimes. Do your homework folks.

linderpat

You are dodging a big bullet.

okbarnett

its still a one owner. the guy that stole it never legally owned it.

cannonball05

If Jon Voight was the previous owner I would buy it.