Debating the 997.1 and .2 price delta is < $10k
04-24-2018, 10:45 AM
#1
Debating the 997.1 and .2 price delta is < $10k
Still new to the forum and the 997 world but after looking at 100s of 997s currently for sale my sense is that the price difference between 997.1s and 2s is less than $10k and rarely in the $15-20k range many people cite. (but may have been realistic in the past)
There are hardly ever straight apples to apples comparisons but as a theoretical example a 2008 Carrera S with 50k in miles is almost always less than $10k less than a 2009 Carrera (non-s) that is nearly similarly equipped.
It's not necessary in my opinion to do an S to S comparison because the 2009 Carrera equals or exceeds 2008 and earlier S specs.
Of course, it's easy to find examples where this is not the case and some might insist that S to S comparisons should be done across the generations but even then the delta seems to be just over $10k.
Last but not least, there are many threads on Rennlist where the cost of 20-40 extra hp are debated and how it affects 0-60 and top line performance - most of those debates lead to the conclusion that these rounding error increments in hp don't translate into significantly better performance.
To breach the 4.0 0-60 in a significant way requires drastically reducing the 997s weight (as some Tesla S drivers are doing now) or buying a turbo.
For me, the logical choice on a very emotional decision is to buy a Gen 2 and be willing to pay in the range of a $7 -12k premium in doing so with a Carrera occupying the lower half of that range and an S the upper half.
Your thoughts ?
There are hardly ever straight apples to apples comparisons but as a theoretical example a 2008 Carrera S with 50k in miles is almost always less than $10k less than a 2009 Carrera (non-s) that is nearly similarly equipped.
It's not necessary in my opinion to do an S to S comparison because the 2009 Carrera equals or exceeds 2008 and earlier S specs.
Of course, it's easy to find examples where this is not the case and some might insist that S to S comparisons should be done across the generations but even then the delta seems to be just over $10k.
Last but not least, there are many threads on Rennlist where the cost of 20-40 extra hp are debated and how it affects 0-60 and top line performance - most of those debates lead to the conclusion that these rounding error increments in hp don't translate into significantly better performance.
To breach the 4.0 0-60 in a significant way requires drastically reducing the 997s weight (as some Tesla S drivers are doing now) or buying a turbo.
For me, the logical choice on a very emotional decision is to buy a Gen 2 and be willing to pay in the range of a $7 -12k premium in doing so with a Carrera occupying the lower half of that range and an S the upper half.
Your thoughts ?
Last edited by Meursault88; 04-24-2018 at 11:30 AM.
04-24-2018, 11:30 AM
#2
Three Wheelin'
I’ll answer in metaphors. Buying a 911 is like going for a swim. You check the water temperature, stick your toe in, assess how clean it is - and then you just do it. Your research and observations are laudable, and I’m sure are valuable in helping you make a decision, but at some point you are just going to have to jump in. Or let me put it in bicycle racing terms; you recon. a race, analyze the best places to sit in and where to attack. Then on race day, being in form, you execute your plan. But here’s the thing, regardless of how well you plan every race develops differently because everyone/every team else has their own unique plan. Of course buying a 911 isn’t a bike race but the principle is the same. You are not buying a brand new 997 so you’ll have hiccups in your search. Every seller, and buyer for that matter, has their own agenda/plan that might muck up the works. So, just stick to your approach, make adjustments when necessary, sieze the moment, and you’ll have a good result (see Bob Jungels). It is really that simple. And in case you are wonderiing you seem to be experiencing Cognitive Dissonance (we all do). Briefly, and you can look it up for better info, it is the indicision/angst one faces when making a decision with one or more difficult choices. We confront this by seeking external input that supports one or more of our decision options.
04-24-2018, 11:51 AM
#3
I raced bikes for more than decade, was a state champion (USCF) 6 times and went to the Olympic trials. I tell my wife every time Sagan doesn't win that "it's tough to win a bike race". Other than my state championships which were all time trials or track events, I only won 3 races. I appreciate the analogy because it's also tough to get exactly the Porsche you want other than buying a new one bespoke.
Cognitive dissonance, pre-purchase justifications/rationalizations (and a hundred other tendencies and idiosyncrasies) in advance of the inevitable buyers remorse. I agree - they will all weigh in.
I sold my last Porsche because it wasn't the exact color combo I wanted - silver with red interior - but right now, I am seeing several well priced, well optioned white with red interior cars and seriously considering them. Especially because they have been on sale for months and I would expect motivated sellers. But again - not being silver, I will want to resell this car when the right one comes along and I don't want to be the +n owner waiting for months and pricing down.
From what I can tell about 2-3% of 997.2s are a light silver (2 flavors) and have the Carrera red full interior so one will come up sooner or later. I'm ready now with cash in hand but the fact that the last 2 solid candidates were sold within days (and locality is always an issue) I could have a long wait or an additional $1k in buying expenses.
If there were any gelbgrun or maritime blue 997.2s I could be swayed. Yours is a cobalt ?
Cognitive dissonance, pre-purchase justifications/rationalizations (and a hundred other tendencies and idiosyncrasies) in advance of the inevitable buyers remorse. I agree - they will all weigh in.
I sold my last Porsche because it wasn't the exact color combo I wanted - silver with red interior - but right now, I am seeing several well priced, well optioned white with red interior cars and seriously considering them. Especially because they have been on sale for months and I would expect motivated sellers. But again - not being silver, I will want to resell this car when the right one comes along and I don't want to be the +n owner waiting for months and pricing down.
From what I can tell about 2-3% of 997.2s are a light silver (2 flavors) and have the Carrera red full interior so one will come up sooner or later. I'm ready now with cash in hand but the fact that the last 2 solid candidates were sold within days (and locality is always an issue) I could have a long wait or an additional $1k in buying expenses.
If there were any gelbgrun or maritime blue 997.2s I could be swayed. Yours is a cobalt ?
04-24-2018, 12:06 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
I went through the same thing, before buying my 997.2. Would do again.
I don't listen for engine rattles. I don't look for smoke. There isn't single droplet of oil underneath it in the garage. And besides, a 997.2 base has about the same horses as a 997.1 "S".
No offense to anyone on the boards here, but it is just a better car.
I don't listen for engine rattles. I don't look for smoke. There isn't single droplet of oil underneath it in the garage. And besides, a 997.2 base has about the same horses as a 997.1 "S".
No offense to anyone on the boards here, but it is just a better car.
04-24-2018, 12:12 PM
#5
I think we both have very similar searches going on. For a few reasons I am not currently able to pull the trigger on what would likely be my "dream car" without taking a loan out, which I would like to avoid. However I am in a place where I could pull the trigger on a decent acceptable entry level 997.1 C2 and get some real world feel for the car and be that much more confident when "the one" comes up, and also keep me from making too many compromises on "the one" in a desire to just get something to drive. But like you I would need to get such a car for a price where it makes sense and I could re-sell it quickly without taking a bath when the right car and time comes. So in a sense I am running two searches at once.
We all do a lot of research and get a lot of knowledge, and then get a little surprised when the general market doesn't bear out what we have been wise to discover. I think this is a combination of two factors, the general buying public isn't as concerned about every little detail and improvement a car has, they just see a 911 the way we might get our blood pumping when we come up next to one at a red light and just admire it, and then they buy. Also, all web forums by their nature, car, photography, you name it, tend to skew towards the hardcore enthusiast, and the enthusiast tends to have more a tendency, right or wrong, to find big value in these improvements, take an issue that maybe effects 2% of cars and make it sound like they are all time-bombs, are interested in only cars that have very performance and track oriented equipment, and make sweeping statements writing off whole generations of cars, or entire transmissions, due to their own personal preference, not because there is something wrong with those cars. For instance, I am willing to own a car with a tiptronic transmission at the right price as mentioned above, because I am not going to the track, my area has no interesting back roads, and I am more likely to be sitting in traffic than anything else. Going on this website you would expect tiptronic cars to sell for half of manuals after sitting around for months. But in the real world with equal miles and equipment, even the tiptronic cars basically sell for the same money as manuals (at most even very desirable cars seem to sell for maybe 20% less than manual), and they seem to sell just about as quickly.
We all do a lot of research and get a lot of knowledge, and then get a little surprised when the general market doesn't bear out what we have been wise to discover. I think this is a combination of two factors, the general buying public isn't as concerned about every little detail and improvement a car has, they just see a 911 the way we might get our blood pumping when we come up next to one at a red light and just admire it, and then they buy. Also, all web forums by their nature, car, photography, you name it, tend to skew towards the hardcore enthusiast, and the enthusiast tends to have more a tendency, right or wrong, to find big value in these improvements, take an issue that maybe effects 2% of cars and make it sound like they are all time-bombs, are interested in only cars that have very performance and track oriented equipment, and make sweeping statements writing off whole generations of cars, or entire transmissions, due to their own personal preference, not because there is something wrong with those cars. For instance, I am willing to own a car with a tiptronic transmission at the right price as mentioned above, because I am not going to the track, my area has no interesting back roads, and I am more likely to be sitting in traffic than anything else. Going on this website you would expect tiptronic cars to sell for half of manuals after sitting around for months. But in the real world with equal miles and equipment, even the tiptronic cars basically sell for the same money as manuals (at most even very desirable cars seem to sell for maybe 20% less than manual), and they seem to sell just about as quickly.
04-24-2018, 12:26 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Leaving aside the .1 vs .2.. we could go around and around for days on that one, the most important thing for my deciding on the car was the must have options. I easily decided on a particular generation of car and after that my interest was in the options. I found in my year long search driving all kinds of 911.. that the options make such a drastic difference to the experience of driving the car. The color was a secondary issue because my primary enjoyment and importance of the car is actually driving it, not looking at it.
I didn't get a chance to drive a car with Sport PASM before I bought mine but I knew it was a must have and I'm very glad I didn't buy a 911 without it. Sure I could have replicated it in the aftermarket, but that would include getting an LSD, stiffer sway bars, and shorter stiffer springs. Seems like just buying a car with Sport PASM was a lot easier to start!
Try to get seat time in as many 911 with different driver oriented options (if you're into that sort of thing) as possible
I didn't get a chance to drive a car with Sport PASM before I bought mine but I knew it was a must have and I'm very glad I didn't buy a 911 without it. Sure I could have replicated it in the aftermarket, but that would include getting an LSD, stiffer sway bars, and shorter stiffer springs. Seems like just buying a car with Sport PASM was a lot easier to start!
Try to get seat time in as many 911 with different driver oriented options (if you're into that sort of thing) as possible
04-24-2018, 12:36 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
I raced bikes for more than decade, was a state champion (USCF) 6 times and went to the Olympic trials. I tell my wife every time Sagan doesn't win that "it's tough to win a bike race". Other than my state championships which were all time trials or track events, I only won 3 races. I appreciate the analogy because it's also tough to get exactly the Porsche you want other than buying a new one bespoke.
Cognitive dissonance, pre-purchase justifications/rationalizations (and a hundred other tendencies and idiosyncrasies) in advance of the inevitable buyers remorse. I agree - they will all weigh in.
I sold my last Porsche because it wasn't the exact color combo I wanted - silver with red interior - but right now, I am seeing several well priced, well optioned white with red interior cars and seriously considering them. Especially because they have been on sale for months and I would expect motivated sellers. But again - not being silver, I will want to resell this car when the right one comes along and I don't want to be the +n owner waiting for months and pricing down.
From what I can tell about 2-3% of 997.2s are a light silver (2 flavors) and have the Carrera red full interior so one will come up sooner or later. I'm ready now with cash in hand but the fact that the last 2 solid candidates were sold within days (and locality is always an issue) I could have a long wait or an additional $1k in buying expenses.
If there were any gelbgrun or maritime blue 997.2s I could be swayed. Yours is a cobalt ?
Cognitive dissonance, pre-purchase justifications/rationalizations (and a hundred other tendencies and idiosyncrasies) in advance of the inevitable buyers remorse. I agree - they will all weigh in.
I sold my last Porsche because it wasn't the exact color combo I wanted - silver with red interior - but right now, I am seeing several well priced, well optioned white with red interior cars and seriously considering them. Especially because they have been on sale for months and I would expect motivated sellers. But again - not being silver, I will want to resell this car when the right one comes along and I don't want to be the +n owner waiting for months and pricing down.
From what I can tell about 2-3% of 997.2s are a light silver (2 flavors) and have the Carrera red full interior so one will come up sooner or later. I'm ready now with cash in hand but the fact that the last 2 solid candidates were sold within days (and locality is always an issue) I could have a long wait or an additional $1k in buying expenses.
If there were any gelbgrun or maritime blue 997.2s I could be swayed. Yours is a cobalt ?
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04-24-2018, 12:39 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
I think we both have very similar searches going on. For a few reasons I am not currently able to pull the trigger on what would likely be my "dream car" without taking a loan out, which I would like to avoid. However I am in a place where I could pull the trigger on a decent acceptable entry level 997.1 C2 and get some real world feel for the car and be that much more confident when "the one" comes up, and also keep me from making too many compromises on "the one" in a desire to just get something to drive. But like you I would need to get such a car for a price where it makes sense and I could re-sell it quickly without taking a bath when the right car and time comes. So in a sense I am running two searches at once.
We all do a lot of research and get a lot of knowledge, and then get a little surprised when the general market doesn't bear out what we have been wise to discover. I think this is a combination of two factors, the general buying public isn't as concerned about every little detail and improvement a car has, they just see a 911 the way we might get our blood pumping when we come up next to one at a red light and just admire it, and then they buy. Also, all web forums by their nature, car, photography, you name it, tend to skew towards the hardcore enthusiast, and the enthusiast tends to have more a tendency, right or wrong, to find big value in these improvements, take an issue that maybe effects 2% of cars and make it sound like they are all time-bombs, are interested in only cars that have very performance and track oriented equipment, and make sweeping statements writing off whole generations of cars, or entire transmissions, due to their own personal preference, not because there is something wrong with those cars. For instance, I am willing to own a car with a tiptronic transmission at the right price as mentioned above, because I am not going to the track, my area has no interesting back roads, and I am more likely to be sitting in traffic than anything else. Going on this website you would expect tiptronic cars to sell for half of manuals after sitting around for months. But in the real world with equal miles and equipment, even the tiptronic cars basically sell for the same money as manuals (at most even very desirable cars seem to sell for maybe 20% less than manual), and they seem to sell just about as quickly.
We all do a lot of research and get a lot of knowledge, and then get a little surprised when the general market doesn't bear out what we have been wise to discover. I think this is a combination of two factors, the general buying public isn't as concerned about every little detail and improvement a car has, they just see a 911 the way we might get our blood pumping when we come up next to one at a red light and just admire it, and then they buy. Also, all web forums by their nature, car, photography, you name it, tend to skew towards the hardcore enthusiast, and the enthusiast tends to have more a tendency, right or wrong, to find big value in these improvements, take an issue that maybe effects 2% of cars and make it sound like they are all time-bombs, are interested in only cars that have very performance and track oriented equipment, and make sweeping statements writing off whole generations of cars, or entire transmissions, due to their own personal preference, not because there is something wrong with those cars. For instance, I am willing to own a car with a tiptronic transmission at the right price as mentioned above, because I am not going to the track, my area has no interesting back roads, and I am more likely to be sitting in traffic than anything else. Going on this website you would expect tiptronic cars to sell for half of manuals after sitting around for months. But in the real world with equal miles and equipment, even the tiptronic cars basically sell for the same money as manuals (at most even very desirable cars seem to sell for maybe 20% less than manual), and they seem to sell just about as quickly.
4% to 10% of IMS's fail, depending on who you listen to. 2% by any measure is low.
IMS's aren't the only problem with m96/97's. There are others - bore scoring, especially on 3.8's. RMS leaks that aren't fixable. Leaks in general.
A tip is really bad, and very different than a PDK. So bad it almost begs the question, "Why buy a 911?". I can relate to someone buying a PDK, as it is excellent. A tip kills the car.
Tiptronic cars' sell price depends on the car it is in. If it is a convertible with a tip that won't kill it any more that the convertible does in the first place. Its a different buyer buying the cab (wife's toy).
You find a tip in a coupe absolutely smashes its value, compared to other coups with manuals.
If one isn't interested in back roads or actually driving a Porsche for its intended purpose, that's cool. But I believe one will find that it is not a really great car at doing other things. It is expensive, loud, stiff, and uncomfortable in just about any other role. Should probably buy an M3 or something, they are much easier to live with.
04-24-2018, 12:44 PM
#9
The 997.2 base is a great value, but you will mostly hear (options) make the car from this group, but don't take my word, listen to PCA...
https://www.pca.org/news/2018-04-10/...-all-be-buying
https://www.pca.org/news/2018-04-10/...-all-be-buying
04-24-2018, 12:54 PM
#10
Some corrections:
4% to 10% of IMS's fail, depending on who you listen to. 2% by any measure is low.
IMS's aren't the only problem with m96/97's. There are others - bore scoring, especially on 3.8's. RMS leaks that aren't fixable. Leaks in general.
A tip is really bad, and very different than a PDK. So bad it almost begs the question, "Why buy a 911?". I can relate to someone buying a PDK, as it is excellent. A tip kills the car.
Tiptronic cars' sell price depends on the car it is in. If it is a convertible with a tip that won't kill it any more that the convertible does in the first place. Its a different buyer buying the cab (wife's toy).
You find a tip in a coupe absolutely smashes its value, compared to other coups with manuals.
If one isn't interested in back roads or actually driving a Porsche for its intended purpose, that's cool. But I believe one will find that it is not a really great car at doing other things. It is expensive, loud, stiff, and uncomfortable in just about any other role. Should probably buy an M3 or something, they are much easier to live with.
4% to 10% of IMS's fail, depending on who you listen to. 2% by any measure is low.
IMS's aren't the only problem with m96/97's. There are others - bore scoring, especially on 3.8's. RMS leaks that aren't fixable. Leaks in general.
A tip is really bad, and very different than a PDK. So bad it almost begs the question, "Why buy a 911?". I can relate to someone buying a PDK, as it is excellent. A tip kills the car.
Tiptronic cars' sell price depends on the car it is in. If it is a convertible with a tip that won't kill it any more that the convertible does in the first place. Its a different buyer buying the cab (wife's toy).
You find a tip in a coupe absolutely smashes its value, compared to other coups with manuals.
If one isn't interested in back roads or actually driving a Porsche for its intended purpose, that's cool. But I believe one will find that it is not a really great car at doing other things. It is expensive, loud, stiff, and uncomfortable in just about any other role. Should probably buy an M3 or something, they are much easier to live with.
I have driven a PDK 991, and a tiptronic Cayenne S. I just don't see how the tiptronic is any worse than an automatic in any other car for daily driving. Now I haven't driven the tip in a 997, and I certainly will before I actually spend the money, but is it any different than what the Cayenne has? Again, going to the track, have some lovely back roads you can toss the car around in, sure, SPASM, PDCC, PDK, PCCB, LSD, hit me with all the acronyms.
I am here to learn and certainly willing to be wrong, never want to be penny wise and pound foolish. I also know that on a boating forum every aspiring canal cruiser is told they need a high performance hardcore fishing rig, in a photography forum every mom who wants something nicer than her cell phone is told to go by a DSLR and thousands of dollars in lenses, so on and so forth. What is perfectly excellent for one type of buyer, doesn't mean it will be the best thing for every buyer.
04-24-2018, 01:07 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
However I live in S Florida, where the roads are straight, the traffic lights are frequent, the driver's are aggressive, and there just aren't that many interesting places to go to wring a car out besides an on-ramp. But I have a lifelong passion for Porsche and want to be a part of the experience.
My condolences. We lived in Miami Shores for about year.. and it sucked the life right out of having a 911 for fun. It was nightmarish, I didn't want to take the car out much considering how simply horrible people drive in Miami.. and how there were not any roads to enjoy. The track in Homestead would have been it. I'd have sold my 911 if we were going to be there long term. Just no way to appreciate it (the way I like to, which is by driving it for fun) in such a place. But as a lifelong Porsche fan.. I sort of get it. If I was going to get a 911 living in south Florida.. I'd get one that was fully depreciated and had already been in a small cosmetic only accident.. so I wouldn't sweat it and still drive the car.
04-24-2018, 01:16 PM
#12
Hi Ap - we are in the same place mentally and figuratively geography. I am in north Texas - boring straight roads and questioning to some degree this entire adventure (other than I've always wanted it and at 55 time is running out).
I've lived around incl Colorado, New Mexico and Los Angeles and the roads there justify these cars. Here - not so much. Maybe Oklahoma and Arkansas has some twisties???
As mentioned before I have the D810 and 850 and the Zeiss Otus set (as well as many others). Without a doubt this is the finest DSLR setup in the world and there are subtleties that the Otus lenses can do that no other lenses come close to. But even then, I am sometimes tempted by Phase One and other MF digitals but I think it's like the 997.2 and Turbo point, double the money to capture that last few percent ? Nah.... I'm good.
"the relentless pursuit of perfection" is a sucker bet. I've lived long enough to know that. (other than getting a Singer but my wife refuses to become a stripper to raise the funds)
I've lived around incl Colorado, New Mexico and Los Angeles and the roads there justify these cars. Here - not so much. Maybe Oklahoma and Arkansas has some twisties???
As mentioned before I have the D810 and 850 and the Zeiss Otus set (as well as many others). Without a doubt this is the finest DSLR setup in the world and there are subtleties that the Otus lenses can do that no other lenses come close to. But even then, I am sometimes tempted by Phase One and other MF digitals but I think it's like the 997.2 and Turbo point, double the money to capture that last few percent ? Nah.... I'm good.
"the relentless pursuit of perfection" is a sucker bet. I've lived long enough to know that. (other than getting a Singer but my wife refuses to become a stripper to raise the funds)
Last edited by Meursault88; 04-24-2018 at 03:25 PM.
04-24-2018, 01:39 PM
#13
My condolences. We lived in Miami Shores for about year.. and it sucked the life right out of having a 911 for fun. It was nightmarish, I didn't want to take the car out much considering how simply horrible people drive in Miami.. and how there were not any roads to enjoy. The track in Homestead would have been it. I'd have sold my 911 if we were going to be there long term. Just no way to appreciate it (the way I like to, which is by driving it for fun) in such a place. But as a lifelong Porsche fan.. I sort of get it. If I was going to get a 911 living in south Florida.. I'd get one that was fully depreciated and had already been in a small cosmetic only accident.. so I wouldn't sweat it and still drive the car.
Yes, what I have mainly been looking for is high mile, mid $20k C2 models, maybe that had damage but not a full on accident, like this one that I have gone to look at: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...modelCode1=911
Just need them to come down on price. I bid on two like cars on Bring a Trailer that sold for $23 and 24k (plus 5% buyer's fee). This one has less miles but the interior was not cared for with the center console peeling, ect (which seems to be a pattern in Miami).
04-24-2018, 02:29 PM
#14
I’ve had an 87 964 all manual everything, then the 01 Boxster, and now the 997.1 after a slew of M cars, Lexus and Benz yachts. NOTHING makes me smile like the 997. I could have merely bought the 911 again way back when and kept it. Indeed North Texas roads are bad in addition to boring. Car is a beating some days on your back. I found the car i could afford with a verified service record and just bought it. No regrets other than not washing and detailing it enough but hey there’s time for that later. I love my C4 coupe. I also know by memory every pothole, pavement undulation, and crack in DALLAS! I’ve fixed every major item on this car myself save and except one thermostat housing bolt that broke off and the pros fixed perfectly. I have a car seat in back for my 5 year old and a frunk full of my daily Jiu Jitsu gear. I should just get a small sports SUV and be comfortable BUT that car makes me smile and no other car has done that for me. I was initially hung up on all the options etc and how some people value them but in the end I just grabbed a depreciated one i liked, didn’t seat the mileage (I’d pass on dried out garage queens as a rule) and drove off. So, every day spent NOT driving a 911 is a day wasted. Good luck!
04-24-2018, 02:38 PM
#15
Some corrections:
4% to 10% of IMS's fail, depending on who you listen to. 2% by any measure is low.
IMS's aren't the only problem with m96/97's. There are others - bore scoring, especially on 3.8's. RMS leaks that aren't fixable. Leaks in general.
A tip is really bad, and very different than a PDK. So bad it almost begs the question, "Why buy a 911?". I can relate to someone buying a PDK, as it is excellent. A tip kills the car.
Tiptronic cars' sell price depends on the car it is in. If it is a convertible with a tip that won't kill it any more that the convertible does in the first place. Its a different buyer buying the cab (wife's toy).
You find a tip in a coupe absolutely smashes its value, compared to other coups with manuals.
If one isn't interested in back roads or actually driving a Porsche for its intended purpose, that's cool. But I believe one will find that it is not a really great car at doing other things. It is expensive, loud, stiff, and uncomfortable in just about any other role. Should probably buy an M3 or something, they are much easier to live with.
4% to 10% of IMS's fail, depending on who you listen to. 2% by any measure is low.
IMS's aren't the only problem with m96/97's. There are others - bore scoring, especially on 3.8's. RMS leaks that aren't fixable. Leaks in general.
A tip is really bad, and very different than a PDK. So bad it almost begs the question, "Why buy a 911?". I can relate to someone buying a PDK, as it is excellent. A tip kills the car.
Tiptronic cars' sell price depends on the car it is in. If it is a convertible with a tip that won't kill it any more that the convertible does in the first place. Its a different buyer buying the cab (wife's toy).
You find a tip in a coupe absolutely smashes its value, compared to other coups with manuals.
If one isn't interested in back roads or actually driving a Porsche for its intended purpose, that's cool. But I believe one will find that it is not a really great car at doing other things. It is expensive, loud, stiff, and uncomfortable in just about any other role. Should probably buy an M3 or something, they are much easier to live with.