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Never had any luck "resurfacing" any rotor.
Always disappointed, and it sounds like you are too, and you're in the industry. (perhaps the fishing industry)
PCA approved shop did the work? They can screw up too.
Perhaps not flushed correctly. What fluid? New sealed can?
Check the fluid....
This is an endurance racing and GT racing pad compound. How was the cold pad performance and noise?
Mike
People do the strangest things... Wait for the OP to come back with his line of bolt-on brake enhancements to correct the serious deficiencies of the OEM brakes and some will dutifully follow.
This thread is about brakes, others are about tunes, suspensions, exhausts and more. It is never about the driver.
This is an endurance racing and GT racing pad compound. How was the cold pad performance and noise?
Mike
Hi Mike
I am using PFC 08 on the streets here in Los Angeles, CA. The cold performance is better than OEM. The front is very quite with only occasional noise. The rear were really loud. I tried everything and couldn't quite them down, so I have put the OEM back to the rear brakes. If I need to do a track day, I would just spend 20mins to put the rear PFC08 back on.
The stopping power with just PFC 08 in the front is a big improvement for the canyon drives.
Hi Mike
I am using PFC 08 on the streets here in Los Angeles, CA. The cold performance is better than OEM. The front is very quite with only occasional noise. The rear were really loud. I tried everything and couldn't quite them down, so I have put the OEM back to the rear brakes. If I need to do a track day, I would just spend 20mins to put the rear PFC08 back on.
The stopping power with just PFC 08 in the front is a big improvement for the canyon drives.
Good to know, i appreciate the feedback. I actually tend to prefer more "grabby" brakes or brakes with a bit more cold bite like the OP is looking for so while i'm shocked to hear you arent having much noise from the fronts its great to hear. I know a lot of more seasoned track drivers prefer the more progressive bite but I just happen to prefer a little more of a high bite pad. I also realize it has little impact on stopping distances. its just preference. I happen to prefer light steering too.... shame on me I know lol.
I have upgraded brakes on all my cars. On the 997, there is nothing better than the OEM PCCB setup and am a huge fan of that, so much so that I'm retrofitting a PCCB setup onto my widebody Cayenne Turbo S. Assuming not many are willing to go that route due to cost, on my wife's 997 C2S I've been very happy with dba slotted rotors (2-piece in the front and 1-piece in the rear) combined with Hawk yellow box ceramic pads . They have good initial bite, excellent stopping power, and produce very little dust.
I never resurface rotors - reduced the heat sink and makes them warp prematurely and they're not that expensive. All my cars also have DOT approved stainless line kits - no internal swelling of the rubber constricting flow over time (Teflon internals instead), no expansion under heavy pedal pressure for better feel and modulation, and never have to replace them again. I also run Motul RBF600 fluid and renew it every year. I've converted all my cars to it, dump 5 or 6 liters into the Motive bleeder and do all of them in a couple hours one after the other.
If you feel a front to rear imbalance, it's possible that the recent service used a different pad than what's on the other "axle" and possibly didn't bed tgem in correctly for material transfer to the resurfaced rotor as the pad to pad material on the rotor contact is what provides that nice initial bite. If not bedded properly you'll glaze the face of the pads and they'll never bite well unless taken back apart sanded to break the glazing, then properly bedded on reassembly.
Here's the setup on my wife's car. The part #s for the fronts are for rotor rings only as I already had the hats from a previous set I did about 50,000 miles ago.
Bear in mind alot of pad selection is subjective feel
case in point the oem textar front pads have a friction rating of GG while the hawk ceramics are FF indicating technically the textars are significantly higher rated in both cold and hot torque.
Bear in mind alot of pad selection is subjective feel
case in point the oem textar front pads have a friction rating of GG while the hawk ceramics are FF indicating technically the textars are significantly higher rated in both cold and hot torque.
That's a good video, which I've seen before, and I agree with everything he says in it. There are two things he didn't mention though regarding rubber lines.
They actually internally constrict over time from exposure to the brake fluid, which means some of the pedal pressure is being used to force fluid through a narrower opening and if constricted enough can actually limit flow. My 997s are now 13 years old. How constricted would the OEM rubber lines be due to internal swelling after 13 years.... I'm not sure, but doubt they have the same properties they did with regard to flexibility and internal diameter as they did when they were new in 2005. Since I replaced them with stainless in 2013 on both cars, I'll never know and if I have to change them at some point anyway, why not install something better for a little more money. If you've ever gone to look at a barn find car, often times the brakes are locked on. Sometimes it because absorbed moisture has internally crusted the caliper pistons, but otger times its because the rubber lines have swelled so badly they're forcing fluid to the caliper pistons like someone is pressing on the brake pedal.
The other thing is that all rubber materials dry out, dryrot, and eventually crack or become weaker, especially if exposed to harsh environments like heat, cold, UV sun rays, etc, all of which brake lines are. If I only kept my P-cars for a couple years and then sold them and got something different, it probably wouldn't matter, but I keep them forever, so why risk a brake line failure at the worst possible time - on the track, on a trip, a tire gator on the road contacting it, etc... actually, when is a good time for a brake line failure?
On my B6 S4 I did a total upgrade to Alcon calipers and rotors with Carbotech XP8 pads with RBF 600 fluid. Those upgrades made that piggy car really stop and pop your eyes out. But they had no bite when cold and they really squealed too. For street and city driving they were useless and a bit dangerous But for backroads and track, perfect. Running a track pad and or a track setup on the street for DD is pointless if you don’t get them up to temp.
That's a good video, which I've seen before, and I agree with everything he says in it. There are two things he didn't mention though regarding rubber lines.
They actually internally constrict over time from exposure to the brake fluid, which means some of the pedal pressure is being used to force fluid through a narrower opening and if constricted enough can actually limit flow. My 997s are now 13 years old. How constricted would the OEM rubber lines be due to internal swelling after 13 years.... I'm not sure, but doubt they have the same properties they did with regard to flexibility and internal diameter as they did when they were new in 2005. Since I replaced them with stainless in 2013 on both cars, I'll never know and if I have to change them at some point anyway, why not install something better for a little more money. If you've ever gone to look at a barn find car, often times the brakes are locked on. Sometimes it because absorbed moisture has internally crusted the caliper pistons, but otger times its because the rubber lines have swelled so badly they're forcing fluid to the caliper pistons like someone is pressing on the brake pedal.
The other thing is that all rubber materials dry out, dryrot, and eventually crack or become weaker, especially if exposed to harsh environments like heat, cold, UV sun rays, etc, all of which brake lines are. If I only kept my P-cars for a couple years and then sold them and got something different, it probably wouldn't matter, but I keep them forever, so why risk a brake line failure at the worst possible time - on the track, on a trip, a tire gator on the road contacting it, etc... actually, when is a good time for a brake line failure?
Right on and I can understand swapping out old lines. I'd just offer an alternative view that most of us are all on stock lines at 10+ years old and there are very few failures. I would never attempt to run a stainless steel line out to 10 years...never.
I've run SS lines on a ton of cars... all because I had no other choice. When it comes to more custom racing brake setups, you really have no choice but to run SS. They're terribly cheap and easy to make for a ton of unique applications.
They do require frequent inspection and any of us who have spent any time at all at a track can probably recall seeing at least a few failed SS lines. The quality of them can vary dramatically and they can chafe down to failure points that unfortunately can go unseen sometimes due to the SS braids covering up the line.
With respect to constricting brake lines over time, i'm not sure about any differences there would be from OEM to SS lines. Keeping in mind that the SS lines are of course, not actually SS "lines" but rather teflon core lines with SS weave over them, what makes us so certain the OEM Porsche lines have any worse of a core?
I'd trust these reinforced lines quite a bit...
With a huge racing program like the Porsche GT3 cup cars... they were able to manufacture lines however they wanted. And heres what they run...
If I can get away with it, ill run the factory lines until I cant anymore due to having to go custom. Again, i dont mean to fault you for choosing a SS line, ive run them a ton but if I can do these OEM ones I will.
Originally Posted by DC911S
On my B6 S4 I did a total upgrade to Alcon calipers and rotors with Carbotech XP8 pads with RBF 600 fluid. Those upgrades made that piggy car really stop and pop your eyes out. But they had no bite when cold and they really squealed too. For street and city driving they were useless and a bit dangerous But for backroads and track, perfect. Running a track pad and or a track setup on the street for DD is pointless if you don’t get them up to temp.
Yeah im definitely not Mr. OEM. I'm on my 10th Audi right now and I feel you on their brakes. For street driving they are generally fine but on all of my S4, S5 and A4 cars that I tracked you had to upsize the front rotor significantly to get enough capacity out of the brake system. As long as you run a large enough rotor you could get by. I've used AP Racing, Stoptech and now Brembo on my Audis and they all did just fine with a large enough rotor. I did an AP Racing upgrade that I pulled off one of my A4s and put it on my B6 S4 back in the day and the braking performance had zero improvement. IT was upsized for the A4 application but not enough brake for the heavier and faster S4. Those cars are HEAVY cars that really need the added capacity.
I did the Alcon 6 pots up front with 355 rotors and in the back went with bigger rotors and oem rear calipers. I could not get them to fade try as I might dive bombing the S4 pig on Rt33. The hotter they got the better they got using the XP8 pads all around. But as I said useless for city driving. Ive taken the 4S on the same roads and the stock brakes seem to be fine with some fading. A higher temp pad and fluid would fix that.
I did the Alcon 6 pots up front with 355 rotors and in the back went with bigger rotors and oem rear calipers. I could not get them to fade try as I might dive bombing the S4 pig on Rt33. The hotter they got the better they got using the XP8 pads all around. But as I said useless for city driving. Ive taken the 4S on the same roads and the stock brakes seem to be fine with some fading. A higher temp pad and fluid would fix that.
That is a super nice set up. I'm jealous. On my b8 cars i just did 380mm fronts...
High initial bite when cold typically comes at the expense of rotor life and dust. Most OEM Brembo set ups have very high initial bite (good for panic stops). My '15 SRT8 Jeep has huge Brembos all around and after only 20k, the Brembo discs have some pretty significant lips on the inner and outer diameters of the braking surface. And the brake dust is the worst I have ever seen on a vehicle. But, it stops on a dime and stopping 8K lbs of boat and trailer is easy too. The Jeep way out brakes my 330/330mm iron disk Porsche. Once I burn up the factory brakes on the Porsche at the track I'll be upgrading to either a CCB BBK, or AP Racing BBK irons. OEM Porsche Irons smaller than 380mm are only good on the street for normal braking. Any real performance driving requires an upgrade in the form of aftermarket or Porsche Motorsports, IMO.
You can see in the pic how dirty the wheels are from the OEM Brembo pad brake dust. The wheels when clean are a shiny black chrome!
Right on! I saw the apracing setup essex advertised here and hope they dont use that same 2piece caliper theyre using on the cayman. Our brembos are monoblocs and have a larger pad area.
anyone curious about ds2500 brake dust, here they are with ap calipers on my b6 s4.... those wheels were bright silver btw...
This thread talks a lot about high initial bite for great panic stops. This is the opposite of controlled/progressive brake application as taught by Vic Elford.
Proper driving is not binary (0/1, off/on). It should be smooth linear application of all inputs.
04-13-2018, 10:26 AM
