I've driven many 991.1 911s from c2, c2s, c4, c4s, and the rwd gts. I compared them to 997.2 c2s and GTS.

I can tell you with confidence from my perspective, an owner and daily driver of a 2012 997 GTS with 6 speed manual, that for me, the Only 991.1 that equals a 997.2 c2s or GTS in terms of driving pleasure, is a 991.1 GTS. Every other 991.1 under the GTS is simply less engaging when compared to a 997.2 c2s or GTS.

So, I would advise to either purchase a used 997.2 c2s or GTS, or pony up nearly 100Gs for a used 991.1 GTS. Or, stay put. Just my opinion.

 

This is interesting because your decision doesn't consider depreciation. Your 997.1 is going to be worth the same roughly $35k it is now in the next few years. The 991 you buy now for $40k more will eat up most of that delta over that same time period in depreciation, and the 991.1 cars aren't holding value as well as the 997s or the 991.2 cars. Keep the car you love, put the $40k in an investment account, and in 3 years if you need to replace the engine, you'll have $50k in that account. Spend $25k on a better Raby 4.0 and you'll be ahead of the game $25k.

Plus the 991 cars don't feel the same - they're larger, less engaging, have more electronics helping you drive, etc. I won't end up with a newer 911 than the 2 997s I have. I'd rather add something different with that money than keep investing I depreciation and into less involving cars that are also harder for me to work on myself. A Macan Turbo with PDCC and PTV will do 90%-95% of what a 991.1 will DO, and be a lot more useful, and have a very similar feel.

 

Yikes!

Looks like I'll have to go drive a 991.1 S to see. I drove one back in 2012 at a World Roadshow event, but I don't remember much other than how cool it was to be driving the "new" 911. I'm off work this week - maybe I'll go for a test drive.

 

I am certain that issues will be found with the engine of the 991, as well. Newer cars are not more reliable than older cars. As a matter of fact, they are engineered to have faster obsolescence built into them.
The goal of the manufacturer is not to give you a vehicle that will live forever and avoid you the regular visits of the dealership workshops.

Take BMW for instance:

I have a E39 540 from 1997. It has over 200,000 miles, is 20 years old and looks line new. I take good care of it and the engine still has plenty of peps into it.
My best friend who owns an independent BMW shop sees horrible stuff every day: The new 4 cylinders Turbo compressed engine mounted on all 3/4-28/30 models is failing at close to 70K-100K miles. The distribution chain tensioners are made of plastic and do not hold too well in time. Your engine will start sounding like a diesel sometimes before they break, ruining the top of the engine. On X3 and X5, the replacement of Turbos is a common, almost daily chore. On M3 E90, he recently got a car which engine locked after running into a rain puddle. The water was eagerly swallowed by the low scoop of the front spoiler and went directly into the cylinders. As we know, water is not compressible....so something else had to give.... Rods are bent, crankshaft is useless.

I could tell you stories like these all day. Modern cars are like modern software: the goal is to create the need for the buyer to come back to the shop often and get a yearly kind of insurance or license.

A few months/years ago, nobody talked about cylinder scoring for the 997.1. It was just the IMS on the 996 and very early 997.1. Now, people are nightmaring about scores and pieces of metal shredded away from their cylinders. It could happen, but it can be prevented by waiting for the oil to warm up and being gentle to the engine in the first 10-15 minutes.

I believe the 991 will also have its list of issues (we had the fuel pump on the 997.2 DFI) and the Turbo will certainly be the source of expensive repairs.

My point is that modern cars are not more reliable than old ones. There is just too much plastic parts and cheap design waiting to be broken.

Yves

 

Do that then drive a 991.2 C4S...Porsche really got it right with that one. I love the 991.1 on longer trips over mine (997.1), so much more comfortable if ya have a bad back and yes it can run circles around mine but it feels big and sterile. After driving that 991.2 all those feelings were gone. Bumps are muted but you really feel the road.

 

I went through this about a month ago. I almost traded my 997 in on a new Cayman. The cost to moving to a new Cayman far outweighs the potential cost of an engine rebuild. I was going to make the move to use the Cayman as a daily driver. After driving the Cayman and building it, I still liked my 997 as much. It was crazy for me to spend over $55k more on the Cayman after trading in my 997. I kept my 997 and I drive a different car daily. I look at the 997 as a fun Porsche. It is not the fastest or most technically advanced, but it is fun to drive. When I AX it, I am competitive with many who drive newer 911s. I think it will lose value, but not enough to make me really care. The car value has been fairly stable, as the dealer almost offered me what I paid for my 997 two years ago. In the first time in my Porsche history, I am content with this car. Even if I end to have the engine rebuilt, it still is less than a new Porsche. At the end of the day, you need to do what makes you happy. No right or wrong moves here..

 

I agree with a lot of this, in theory, but what if someone came up to you and said, "Give me $40,000 and I'll give you a newer, arguably better, faster, safer, more technologically advanced car OR give me $25,000 and I'll let you keep the car you have?" The second half of that sentence sounds like you're being robbed.

 

Except you don't need to give someone $25,000 to keep the car you have. What if instead they said keep the car you have and I'll give you $3,000 a year the first year to do that and $3,400 the next year. That's an 8% rate of return on the $40,000 you'd have to pay to upgrade that you could instead put into an investment account. Now if for some reason you've resigned yourself to the opinion that your current car is a ticking time bomb, then logic won't make any sense here anyway, but since you haven't said your car is exhibiting any signs of impending doom, I'm not sure why you seem to feel this way.

BTW, is the 991 DFI engine better - yes, it appears to be, but I think it's essentially the same motor that's in the 997.2 and there are cases of bore scoring in those motors as well. According to Baz, they show up in the opposite cylinders (1&4) than scoring in the 997.1 motors (3&6) for different reasons.

What seems like stealing is paying $40,000 to essentially have the same driving experience you have today, but with Bluetooth and air conditioned seats, but to each their own.

 

 

Whole lotta love in your first paragraph! Given that, if it were me, I'd stash away a healthy sized car payment per month, and when this car gives up the ghost, in the very distant future if at all, you'll hopefully have a healthy down payment or enough $$ for its replacement. Drive it like you stole it, and if & when it leaves you by the side of the road, you'll have a lot of great memories of an awesome car. Good luck.

T

 

Maybe I should change my tune, be contradictory, and reiterate an old Porsche saying: “Buy the newest 911 you can afford.”

After all, isn’t that the meat of the issue (expense)? I presume that if someone were to grant you a lifetime of free labor and parts for any Porsche you owned, you might just change cars?

 

I actually enjoy doing the work on my cars. I do the work more carefully than a Porsche shop normally does and have more confidence in the repair knowing that every fastener is properly retorqued, but I'll take you up on the lifetime parts supply

 

I have to agree with Petza's logic here and I'm on the side that thinks the odds of your engine failing in the next couple of years are very slim. Your warranty is good for another 12-15 months, keep the car that long, but if the worry of the engine failing is keeping you up at night and that ruins the ownership experience, the 991 board will welcome you with open arms. Or, if you just want a newer better toy and the extra cash isn't an issue, just do what makes YOU happy!

Good luck!

 

You're not going to get into a newer 911 with a mathematic/economic argument. Your car is nearing the bottom of the depreciation curve, while any 991 you buy still has plenty of depreciation left in it. At worst, if you blew your engine, replacing it wouldn't cost as much as what you stand to pay by trading up to a 991.

So, you really just need to decide what you WANT to do.

I am almost perfectly happy with my '09 C2 cab. I love the color, the options, the performance and so far, the reliability. I just turned 70k miles and have had no particularly expensive issues with it (yes, I just knocked on wood after I typed this). But, as I am wont to do every few years, I've gotten a bit of a bug to get something different and have been casually searching the listings of 991 cabs online. I really can't justify moving to the 991. I've driven three or four of them and the performance improvements aren't worth the price difference to me. Plus, if I got another Meteor Gray car, 99% of the people I know wouldn't even know I'd traded up.

I have accepted the fact that my search for something different isn't rational. It's just a craving for change--something programmed into my brain that I can't explain. Any reason I might use to justify he change to my wife would be salesmanship, not reasoning.

Long story short, are you sure you're using reason, or do you just want something new?

 

Fine points, all.

This may be rationalization, but I'm not sure how I'd swallow the loss if (a big if!) that engine does fail, in one way or another. I realize that ANY engine could fail, but it will be exceedingly difficult to justify putting out the cash to fix scored bores or, worse, a completely IMS-trashed engine when I knew these were possible issues and had previously hedged against them. It may be irrational, but that check would be more difficult for me to write (and justify) than would a check for a newer vehicle.

That being said, I went and drove a 991.1 Carrera S today. It was quick, but not that much quicker than mine. The adjectives I would use are "smooth" and "soft." Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's definitely a choice that will need to be pondered next year.

Hmmmm.