Rebuild .1 or sell and buy .2
07-30-2017, 01:45 AM
#16
Rather than Hijack recent rebuild threads which are dealing with preemptive or mandatory rebuilds I thought I would launch a new one designed to open a discussion around the value proposition of each option.
Hoping this becomes a valuable resource that deals with specific shortcomings of the .1 platform and how well the current high level rebuilds overcome them. With any luck we'll have Baz, Jake and other experts weighing in...
Assumption:
Rebuild is performed by a reputable builder such as Hartech, Flat 6 etc... and includes overbore conversion with stand alone wet type cylinders, aftermarket pistons/rods, rebuilt heads. Full meal deal!
Question 1:
Does a fully rebuilt M/96, M/97 (overbore conversion ie 3.6/3.8 - 4.0) from a reputable builder addressing all the inherent issues offer a comparable value proposition as a .2 with what most experts agree has a superior 9A1 engine architecture?
Question 2:
Will the rebuilt M/96-7 offer comparable durability and reliability as the newer 9A1 platform?
Question 3:
Will the rebuilt M/96, M/97 command a similar market value as the .2?
Let the fun begin!
Hoping this becomes a valuable resource that deals with specific shortcomings of the .1 platform and how well the current high level rebuilds overcome them. With any luck we'll have Baz, Jake and other experts weighing in...
Assumption:
Rebuild is performed by a reputable builder such as Hartech, Flat 6 etc... and includes overbore conversion with stand alone wet type cylinders, aftermarket pistons/rods, rebuilt heads. Full meal deal!
Question 1:
Does a fully rebuilt M/96, M/97 (overbore conversion ie 3.6/3.8 - 4.0) from a reputable builder addressing all the inherent issues offer a comparable value proposition as a .2 with what most experts agree has a superior 9A1 engine architecture?
Question 2:
Will the rebuilt M/96-7 offer comparable durability and reliability as the newer 9A1 platform?
Question 3:
Will the rebuilt M/96, M/97 command a similar market value as the .2?
Let the fun begin!
07-30-2017, 03:01 AM
#17
Three Wheelin'
+1 on the .1 rebuild. You gotta dance with the one who brought you.
I originally thought I would upgrade to a .2 in a few years but I'm now leaning toward keeping my .01 for the long haul.
The .2 is definetly more refined and the PDK is slick. However the .1 with a 6sp is more involved, raw, and the Fister sounds way better on a .1.
I originally thought I would upgrade to a .2 in a few years but I'm now leaning toward keeping my .01 for the long haul.
The .2 is definetly more refined and the PDK is slick. However the .1 with a 6sp is more involved, raw, and the Fister sounds way better on a .1.
07-30-2017, 03:08 AM
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
Nothing yet. Car runs great. Uses 1/2 quart of oil per 1000 miles. Recent Blackstone report showed aluminum at 3 and all other numbers where stellar. I'm higher mileage though so I'm considering the preemptive 4.0 conversion. I'm like a fart in a frying pan however when it comes to deciding the best route. I feel I could go either way and end up about the same place financially.
07-30-2017, 03:22 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
Nothing yet. Car runs great. Uses 1/2 quart of oil per 1000 miles. Recent Blackstone report showed aluminum at 3 and all other numbers where stellar. I'm higher mileage though so I'm considering the preemptive 4.0 conversion. I'm like a fart in a frying pan however when it comes to deciding the best route. I feel I could go either way and end up about the same place financially.
07-30-2017, 07:42 AM
#21
One advantage a rebuilt engine will have over a stock unit is the builder can focus on engineering reliability and performance into the new motor. The OEM engine has many more considerations such as fuel mileage, noise, emissions, scaleability, cross model part uniformity, etc., etc.
07-30-2017, 08:28 AM
#22
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Sell the dang things and get a 997 turbo . . . Ridiculous to be concerned about and waiting around for it to grenade so you can dump a rebuilt motor in it if that is truly your concern. Makes zero sense financially or dollar, per dollar performance wise.
Lol, at people still trying to say the 997.2 has reliable issues or prone to scoring even remotely near the level of the 997.1. The DFIs so far have shown to be extremely reliable, but if hand was forced . . . I would definitely go with a higher hp option rather than pay $25k to remain status quo with a car that now has a rebuilt.
That said, does the Raby 4.0 on the M96/97 have any long term track record whatsoever or has it really proved to be anywhere as remotely reliable long term as even the M96/97? What is cost to drop a Mezger in a NA .1? At least these have a proven long term track record in large numbers.
Lol, at people still trying to say the 997.2 has reliable issues or prone to scoring even remotely near the level of the 997.1. The DFIs so far have shown to be extremely reliable, but if hand was forced . . . I would definitely go with a higher hp option rather than pay $25k to remain status quo with a car that now has a rebuilt.
That said, does the Raby 4.0 on the M96/97 have any long term track record whatsoever or has it really proved to be anywhere as remotely reliable long term as even the M96/97? What is cost to drop a Mezger in a NA .1? At least these have a proven long term track record in large numbers.
07-30-2017, 09:02 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
I have a .2 but if in your shoes, definitely build the .1.
I like to mod, tinker, make things my own. Trading in for a .2 is boring IMO. Build it so it's unique.
I like to mod, tinker, make things my own. Trading in for a .2 is boring IMO. Build it so it's unique.
07-30-2017, 05:06 PM
#24
Racer
Thread Starter
Relax! It's just a discussion aimed at creating a resource for others who are facing a preemptive or mandatory rebuild. Not looking for advice regarding my car or I would have framed it as such.
07-31-2017, 01:43 AM
#25
Former Vendor
That said, does the Raby 4.0 on the M96/97 have any long term track record whatsoever or has it really proved to be anywhere as remotely reliable long term as even the M96/97?
We've also had a division working with 9a1 engines since 2010. With he 9a1 I tend to make the engines smaller than stock to make big power. Though we were the first to 4.2, and have had a 4.2 proven for more than 6 years now...
07-31-2017, 08:06 AM
#26
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
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My program has now been around for going on 15 years, with the last decade of that devoted solely to M96/97 engines. If we had any problems, you would have heard about them.
We've also had a division working with 9a1 engines since 2010. With he 9a1 I tend to make the engines smaller than stock to make big power. Though we were the first to 4.2, and have had a 4.2 proven for more than 6 years now...
We've also had a division working with 9a1 engines since 2010. With he 9a1 I tend to make the engines smaller than stock to make big power. Though we were the first to 4.2, and have had a 4.2 proven for more than 6 years now...
07-31-2017, 10:14 AM
#27
Former Vendor
So you have a fairly large number of customers that have put 50k to 100k on the 4.0 being discussed in this thread whose experience shows long term reliability with that specific build? When did you start with the 4.0 build? How many have you done? I have only seen a handful of people mention having them on the 997 boards.
My purchasers aren't forum guys in most cases.
07-31-2017, 10:17 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Then again, ha! in my original post, instead of "maybe they have differing opinion", i should have put "they know a helluva lot more than me so i might be way off base!"
