What is too much $$ for a 996TT?
05-23-2017, 02:00 PM
#1
What is too much $$ for a 996TT?
What is the most you guys would pay for the perfect 996TT? I am looking at a 2003 Guards Red X50 with aero kit with 12k, dealer looking for $80k... To me that is 997TT territory (which I own). Would you guys pay $80k for a 996TT?
05-23-2017, 02:15 PM
#3
That sounds like the car that was for sale by Dick Barbour a few months ago on ebay for $75k. Who is selling the car now?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-Porsche...578?rmvSB=true
But no, I personally wouldn't pay $80k for a 996TT. Prices are definitely on the rise though for low mileage stock, well optioned cars.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-Porsche...578?rmvSB=true
But no, I personally wouldn't pay $80k for a 996TT. Prices are definitely on the rise though for low mileage stock, well optioned cars.
05-23-2017, 02:20 PM
#4
That's about $20K over the highest 996 TT I have seen, while looking recently.
From what I have read, the 996 TT will never be considered "collectible," due to high production numbers. If you buy this at anything approaching $80K, you will lose value on the car faster than most new cars depreciate as you put on mileage and the car becomes further dated.
From what I have read, the 996 TT will never be considered "collectible," due to high production numbers. If you buy this at anything approaching $80K, you will lose value on the car faster than most new cars depreciate as you put on mileage and the car becomes further dated.
05-23-2017, 02:29 PM
#5
That sounds like the car that was for sale by Dick Barbour a few months ago on ebay for $75k. Who is selling the car now?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-Porsche...578?rmvSB=true
But no, I personally wouldn't pay $80k for a 996TT. Prices are definitely on the rise though for low mileage stock, well optioned cars.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-Porsche...578?rmvSB=true
But no, I personally wouldn't pay $80k for a 996TT. Prices are definitely on the rise though for low mileage stock, well optioned cars.
Thats the one, what is the most you would pay? I love the build, especially being guards red, not too many out there.
05-23-2017, 02:33 PM
#6
That's about $20K over the highest 996 TT I have seen, while looking recently.
From what I have read, the 996 TT will never be considered "collectible," due to high production numbers. If you buy this at anything approaching $80K, you will lose value on the car faster than most new cars depreciate as you put on mileage and the car becomes further dated.
From what I have read, the 996 TT will never be considered "collectible," due to high production numbers. If you buy this at anything approaching $80K, you will lose value on the car faster than most new cars depreciate as you put on mileage and the car becomes further dated.
05-23-2017, 02:37 PM
#7
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
From what I have read, the 996 TT will never be considered "collectible," due to high production numbers. If you buy this at anything approaching $80K, you will lose value on the car faster than most new cars depreciate as you put on mileage and the car becomes further dated.
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05-23-2017, 02:46 PM
#8
I'm partial to guards red as well. This car is well optioned with the X50 and aero kit. For me personally, if I was still looking for a 996TT the price would have to be in the $60s. Looking at asking prices with spring compared to last year, there are a lot more cars in the $60-70k range than there were last year though.
While I agree that production numbers do have an impact on collectibility and prices, I've seen a similar market trend with vintage 65-66 Shelby and K code mustangs. Most collectors first pick up the rare low production model examples and then as they expand their collection they end up wanting low mile stock pristine examples of a more widely produced car. As this happens the entire market of that particular moves up. I see this now beginning to be the case with the 996TTs.
While I agree that production numbers do have an impact on collectibility and prices, I've seen a similar market trend with vintage 65-66 Shelby and K code mustangs. Most collectors first pick up the rare low production model examples and then as they expand their collection they end up wanting low mile stock pristine examples of a more widely produced car. As this happens the entire market of that particular moves up. I see this now beginning to be the case with the 996TTs.
05-23-2017, 02:57 PM
#9
While I agree that production numbers do have an impact on collectibility and prices, I've seen a similar market trend with vintage 65-66 Shelby and K code mustangs. Most collectors first pick up the rare low production model examples and then as they expand their collection they end up wanting low mile stock pristine examples of a more widely produced car. As this happens the entire market of that particular moves up. I see this now beginning to be the case with the 996TTs.
05-23-2017, 03:04 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
I paid more for my 911SC in 1984 than I could have for a 72 911S; you see where that got me from an investment standpoint.
If you have the money, and it's what you want, and you're tired of waiting, get it and enjoy the ride. But financially, it's priced over market value right now.
05-23-2017, 03:09 PM
#11
I think you'd be surprised. At one time the Shelbys and K code mustangs were just used cars and treated as such. I've seen quite a few that had been modified to varying degrees (some tasteful and some not) limiting the number of nice original untouched cars. The latter are still bringing decent money. I think that same premise will be seen with our cars.
My thoughts on (non-daily driver) cars has always been to buy what makes you happy and not always for investments sake. That way no matter the value of the car, you still get enjoyment out of it simply by owning it and not because it's worth (or not worth) a lot of coin.
Sorry for digressing from the original point of the thread.
My thoughts on (non-daily driver) cars has always been to buy what makes you happy and not always for investments sake. That way no matter the value of the car, you still get enjoyment out of it simply by owning it and not because it's worth (or not worth) a lot of coin.
Sorry for digressing from the original point of the thread.
05-23-2017, 03:43 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
a well sorted and modded the way that suits my fancy absolutely.
not exactly comparing apples to apples, but check this 1977 911 that sold for almost the same money.
the 996tt being the first generation water cooled turbo, beast out of the gate, bullet proof mezger engine, extremely mod freindly, first 911 with controversial headlamps, it will be a must have in a serious collectors quiver.
contrary to what most believe, well sorted and modded versions are going for more than stock.
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1977-porsche-911-5/
not exactly comparing apples to apples, but check this 1977 911 that sold for almost the same money.
the 996tt being the first generation water cooled turbo, beast out of the gate, bullet proof mezger engine, extremely mod freindly, first 911 with controversial headlamps, it will be a must have in a serious collectors quiver.
contrary to what most believe, well sorted and modded versions are going for more than stock.
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1977-porsche-911-5/
Last edited by Oak; 05-23-2017 at 04:14 PM.
05-23-2017, 03:52 PM
#13
Collectibility is of course in the eye of the beholder.
Within the "relatively modern" BMW universe, with which I am much more familiar than the Porsche one, the 1M, made only in 2011, had total sales numbers in N. America of less than 1000, coupes only, 740 of which were sold in the USA. The Z3M Coupe (often referred to as the "clownshoe"), had less than 3000 sold in N.A; there was also the Z3 Coupe, of which about 2000 were sold.
The E46 M3, on the other hand, had about 26,000 examples sold in NA in coupe form, and close to 18,000 in convertible form.
The first 2 are considered "collectible," on account or rarity, the latter, albeit a fine car, is not (let's not get into the SMG transmission issue, examples of which contained in these total numbers would not meet my definition of a "fine" car).
The 911, 996 Porsche Turbo, had approximately 6600 coupes and about 2550 cabs sold in the USA during the production run of years 2001 through 2005. The 2004 and 2005 coupes are the rarest during the run.
My personal opinion is that rarity is what drives prices and collectibility in cars; it certainly is what I have observed in the used, fine, German car market as long as I have been following it.
None of this has anything whatever to do with desirability, quality, enjoyment or pride of ownership.
Therefore, stating that I am "100%" incorrect is certainly a 100% incorrect statement, itself :-)
Within the "relatively modern" BMW universe, with which I am much more familiar than the Porsche one, the 1M, made only in 2011, had total sales numbers in N. America of less than 1000, coupes only, 740 of which were sold in the USA. The Z3M Coupe (often referred to as the "clownshoe"), had less than 3000 sold in N.A; there was also the Z3 Coupe, of which about 2000 were sold.
The E46 M3, on the other hand, had about 26,000 examples sold in NA in coupe form, and close to 18,000 in convertible form.
The first 2 are considered "collectible," on account or rarity, the latter, albeit a fine car, is not (let's not get into the SMG transmission issue, examples of which contained in these total numbers would not meet my definition of a "fine" car).
The 911, 996 Porsche Turbo, had approximately 6600 coupes and about 2550 cabs sold in the USA during the production run of years 2001 through 2005. The 2004 and 2005 coupes are the rarest during the run.
My personal opinion is that rarity is what drives prices and collectibility in cars; it certainly is what I have observed in the used, fine, German car market as long as I have been following it.
None of this has anything whatever to do with desirability, quality, enjoyment or pride of ownership.
Therefore, stating that I am "100%" incorrect is certainly a 100% incorrect statement, itself :-)
05-23-2017, 04:08 PM
#14
05-23-2017, 04:11 PM
#15
Perhaps this will be helpful to someone considering buying a low mileage example of a car that they want to keep a long time, but without having to pay up full retail at the time the given car is being sold as a "new" car. I have done this myself with 3 of 4 manual transmission BMWs in my own little collection (a 1M, a 2013 135is Convertible, and a 2013 135i coupe, the latter being more of a winter and utility car to me than a collection type car).
Most BMWs seem to depreciate a bit faster than Porsches, but the overall schema is the same; the largest drop in value per year, due to depreciation, will occur in the first 4 years after sale.
Many of these cars don't get driven very many miles per year, compared to your average car; convertibles are an even more extreme case of this. This makes it relatively easy to find an unmolested, pristine example a few years out from production.
Over time, the longer it has been since the car was first sold, there is more and more potential for abuse from owners, and from modifications, another form of abuse in the eyes of many. In addition, things break and wear out over time, and generally less severely in cars that are well-maintained, as opposed to neglected. As a used car buyer, one has no control over the actions of prior owners :-) So, if the goal is to buy a certain car with low mileage, at a lower price, but before it has been abused by former owners, it probably pays to try to buy it after 2-4 years, maybe 5 or 6 years, not 14 or 15 years after production, as in the case of the car about which this thread was started.
Otherwise, I would just buy a higher mileage example that has obviously been brought back up to snuff by the current owner. If the goal was, for example, to buy a pristine example of one of the last generation of Porsches that drives like an older Porsche, with hydraulic steering and a manual transmission, I'd be looking at the last of those cars produced, which by now are 4, 5, or 6 years old, not a car that is 14 or 15 years old.
Just my take.
Most BMWs seem to depreciate a bit faster than Porsches, but the overall schema is the same; the largest drop in value per year, due to depreciation, will occur in the first 4 years after sale.
Many of these cars don't get driven very many miles per year, compared to your average car; convertibles are an even more extreme case of this. This makes it relatively easy to find an unmolested, pristine example a few years out from production.
Over time, the longer it has been since the car was first sold, there is more and more potential for abuse from owners, and from modifications, another form of abuse in the eyes of many. In addition, things break and wear out over time, and generally less severely in cars that are well-maintained, as opposed to neglected. As a used car buyer, one has no control over the actions of prior owners :-) So, if the goal is to buy a certain car with low mileage, at a lower price, but before it has been abused by former owners, it probably pays to try to buy it after 2-4 years, maybe 5 or 6 years, not 14 or 15 years after production, as in the case of the car about which this thread was started.
Otherwise, I would just buy a higher mileage example that has obviously been brought back up to snuff by the current owner. If the goal was, for example, to buy a pristine example of one of the last generation of Porsches that drives like an older Porsche, with hydraulic steering and a manual transmission, I'd be looking at the last of those cars produced, which by now are 4, 5, or 6 years old, not a car that is 14 or 15 years old.
Just my take.
