racer63

Wouldn't the e46 car cost more like 20K more than the e36? Even with a balloon payment, I don't see how he'd get down to his $350-$400/mo desired payment.

Wachuko

Budget of 30K? I would get the newest BMW I could find... but know that will not be M3 territory... unless you go to an old M3...these cars are now old... and they do not look anywhere as nice as 951. Get a 325 or 330, you would be getting a German built car with the nice characteristics we all love...

And I doubt this car ad is real:
http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/v...r=&cardist=166

Trojan Man

Yeah, I checked on the balloon payment - it's like $700 a month - and it's not available in Cali. It sounds like a heckuva cheap way to finance a car.

The M3 on Autotrader sounds like a scam - I called the phone #, and the guy who answered said that he's been getting calls like crazy, but he doesn't own an M3. Apparently someone just put his # in for kicks.

My GF is trying to convince me not to spend any money on any car, and just put the $400 a month into savings or fixing up whatever property I find. I think the best compromise might be getting a $6-$8K 944 and put $2K into making it go faster.

As a side note, does anyone on the board have any property of any kind they are selling, and would be willing to carry the paper with a $25K down payment?

racer63

Way off topic... but... can you say bubble! (as in real estate bubble) Property is the last place I'd be looking to invest right now... well, ok, second to last, after bonds. You might get a year more of appreciation, if you're lucky. But, beyond that, the returns of the past 5 years are unlikely to persist.

Stephen may be a PorschePHD, but, believe it or not, I am an investment PHD. (strange but true)

Tim Murphy

I just wondered over here and I'm suprised no one has suggested a 928. You could buy a 90-91GT for under $30k. Or, you could buy an 87-89 for $15k, throw a $8k supercharger kit on it and get 500rwhp without sacrificing the drivability. Just an idea.

KPV

Ryan,
I know you, as well as others, have heard me expound upon the virtues of the MINI Cooper S in a previous post, but after a drive today, I felt compelled to write at length here. As you know, I purchased a 2003 MINI Cooper S http://members.rennlist.com/kpv/minicoopers.html . With all of the "Good" options, including a really slick navigation system, the Aero-Kit, and the package that includes automatic climate control, steering wheel controls and sunroof, my price was $28K (Slightly used ones can be had for slightly less). This is for a new, essentially BMW, lightweight, go-kart-like car.
I cannot put into words how much fun this car is to drive. On my way home today, I took corners while lifting the inside wheel (as witnessed by a friend on a previous drive), caught 4 wheel air over this road drop off and generally had a blast!! I plan to catch photo of the "air" I acheive over this one drop off. Stay tuned for a future post. The fun factor is amazing!
As you can see from my sig, I had a 944 turbo for about nine years and put 250K miles on it, a 993 for three years and the new TT for less than a year. So, I can speak from experience in comparison to the 951 posts. Without question, the MINI is more fun to drive than any of them. I kid you not!
I urge you to go to a dealer and take an "S" out for a drive. When you do it, drive it, really drive it. Push it and you will see what I mean. Another $2K will get you another aftermarket 50 hp (165 stock, 215 with upgrades).
The best way I can describe it is an M3 at significantly less weight and bulk. The shifter is solid, the controls are all BMW-esque and it is just really well built. The door shutting sound is rock solid and blows away the 300ZX door shutting sound of the 996TT.
TRY IT!!!!
A friend tried mine and put a deposit on one the next day!
Besides, do you really want to be spending money on repairs or would you rather spend it on performance upgrades?!

LSM

I stand corrected then, I thought the problem was resolved by MY2003. I also am under the impression that the blown engine problem is overblown and the vast majority of cars is unaffected. In any case, after some initial resistence, BMW has seemed to step up to the plate. They have extended the warranties and seem to be replacing the faulty engines sight unseen.

-Lou

LSM

Do you really think that is going to happen? I can see where you are going with this as I am a Mortgage Banker for WAMU but, at least in Chicago, never in its history have property values depreciated. We have high prices but, we are nowhere near the values of other large cities.(NY, LA, etc.) I think real estate may be the last good investment. Who knows though, you may be right, but, and I am sure you have been watching this being in the field you are in, deflationary pressure has decreased in recent weeks.

-Lou

Trojan Man

Ken,

I test drove a cooper NON-S model, and it was a neat little car, but very lacking in power. At the time (about a year ago), the 2 closest dealers to me (Irvine Mini & Crevier Mini) only gave test drives in 1 car, and you had to make an appointment up to 2 weeks in advance. Also, they were charging about $3K-$5K over sticker, forcing you to buy rims, scotchgard, permaplate, lojack, and some kind of roof graphics.

The combination of these things turned me off to the Mini franchise. Now that it is entering another year, I am hoping that things have changed with respect to how the Minis are sold. Any ideas if they are still price gouging? Anyone getting them for below sticker? I would very much like to drive an S-model.

Also, any word from the Mini camp if they are bringing out any new models (besides the Cooper convertible), or if a bigger engine is coming out?

LSM

Trojan Man,

Justed check with my friend who owns a large BMW dealership in Chicago. He says you could get a 2001 fairly low mile M3(15-20K miles) for $38k(low end) to about $40k(high end) He did say as you mentioned, the payment would be about $700. In that case, if it were me, I would get a 330ci sport, manual transmission. It is a fun car and performs well, I believe 0-60 has been shown at 5.8sec. Not to bad for a great car with a usabale back seat, nice interior and good warranty. 540 I sport 6 speed is another fun car. They are both good looking cars imo. If it were me though, I would take the 330ci for its better handling and steering compared to the 540's recirculating ball setup

-Lou

-Lou

ben in lj

"I also am under the impression that the blown engine problem is overblown and the vast majority of cars is unaffected."

I don't think the problem is overblown in the least. MANY MANY MANY of these cars experienced this and MANY have more than once!

"In any case, after some initial resistence, BMW has seemed to step up to the plate."

SOME? They were fricken dirtbags about it until the evidence became so overwhelming they had no choice but to "step up" - or be class actioned into reputation distruction. I'm not sure there is any car company with crappier warranty service than BMW (they are lucky they make such fun cars). It has been my experience in four cities over nearly 20 years of driving BMWs that "it's normal" is the first thing BMW service reps are trained to say.

"They have extended the warranties and seem to be replacing the faulty engines sight unseen."

Yes, they are now 6 year/100k for oiled parts. However, they still like to use the abuse tagline to avoid replacement from time to time. The internet is full of just such recounts. I've haven't leased a car in 10 years but did so on our 03 M3 because of their reliability, bmw service dept, and resale based upon whether or not you get a lemon or have an engine replacement.

racer63

I hate to spend much bandwidth on a non-Porsche topic. But, if I had only $25K to invest (as I think Trojanman indicated), I wouldn't want to invest it in a speculative real estate venture (property that is purchased solely for appreciation). The asset class has appreciated wildly and is not very liquid. I'd much rather diversify into a variety of asset classes - taking into consideration what I intend to do with the money (e.g., invest it for many years vs. use it to buy a house in a year). Along these lines, it's amazing to me how many people have fessed up to me that they put their savings (funds needed within a few years) into a 100% tech stock allocation in late 1999 and early 2000... ugggh. Of course, they bailed at the bottom and are not in the market now... but I digress. Regardless of the asset class (tech stocks, real estate, etc.), I'd be very leery of putting all my eggs in a basket that has appreciated phenominally for 5+ years.

On the other hand, if it were a downpayment on a house, and I intended to live there 5-10 years, I think it would certainly be a reasonable investment. At a minimum, you'd avoid the rent payment, get a good tax shield, and have a shot at some appreciation assuming a relatively long holding period.

ben in lj

True, the last two asset classes I'd currently spend more than 2 seconds thinking about are RE and bonds. Both should provide very disappointing returns from here.

"On the other hand, if it were a downpayment on a house, and I intended to live there 5-10 years, I think it would certainly be a reasonable investment"

i dunno. add a 6 to 7% realtor commission on exit together with opportunity cost on the down payment and one could easily lose money in 5 years if they buy a home now. it all depends on where you are buying but i believe the poster is in OC, CA and coastal CA is absolutely NUTS right now. there has been a time in the last 15 years wherein a buyer could buy a house and STILL be upside down 7 to 8 years later (including commisions) without regard to inflation even. those buying the nasdung in 2000 probably won't be whole for at least another decade (or two) without regard to inflation even.

Trojan Man

Lou, prices have gone up and down here in L.A. in the past. My parents purchased their house in 1987 for $75 per foot. In the last cycle's market peak sometime in the 90's, the house was worth around $229 per foot. Then in the last market trough, prices dropped to $177 per foot. Now, they have stabalized around $210 per foot.

In the coastal communities (like Newport Beach), prices have steadily risen since the mid 90's, with very little if any regression. In 1995, my parents were looking at a waterfront condo for $211 per foot and now prices are between $300-$500 per foot depending on proximity to water.

Communities like Newport have gone up to such ridiculous levels that they cannot possibly continue to appreciate at the same rate or no one will be able to afford anything in a few years. For example, a new construction condo 4 miles from the beach (1900 square feet) is selling for $447 per foot.

So what's the point of my tirade? Well I'm not sure that I have one, but it was fun ranting about property values here!

KPV

Cooper vs. Cooper S is like comparing PeeWee Herman to Lou Ferrigno. The Cooper barely exceeds 100hp (109hp exactly) whereas the S is 165hp. Yes that is a 51% difference. Now add the aftermarket pulley, cold air intake and exhaust (215 hp) and that is almost a 100% power difference in a car that weighs essentially the same. People are starting to get 240hp and up with additional tweaks. Add springs and shocks (the hot setup is actually not coilovers but koni shocks and H-sport springs) and you have one mean little beast. Weight/HP ratio of a tricked S is 12.4. Compare that to a stock 996TT which is around 8.7. And, a stock S will arguably outhandle a stock TT on real twisty roads. I kid you not. It is just pure physics. The car weighs 1000 pounds less and has roughly the same track and wheelbase.
I paid MSRP for mine. There is too much demand for them to discount them. If you don't like your dealer, find another that will sell for MSRP and fly to get the car. I have done that twice.
I know of the convertible and I know that 2004 will have the same engine. That is all I know about the future variants.