Trojan Man

OK guys...I think I may have it!! It would be stretching the budget to a bit over $30K, but it looks like a '94-'96 Viper would do the trick! It is every bit as fast as the turbo, has a great reliability record, and one could argue that it is more exotic. Certainly there are fewer Vipers in L.A. than turbos!

On top of that, this month's issue of Grassroots Motorsports has a section on great used sports cars under $40K, and the Viper came in 1st!

Opinions on Vipers?

Targa Tim

I doubt that the Viper will make a very good daily driver.
I use my Cooper S as a daily driver and it is great. The only one complaint is lack of power compared to my 993. But for daily city driving, its handling will more than make it up. Plus it is good on gas, practical (quite roomy for its size), and you can park it anywhere with no worry (in contrast to an exotic car).
Go for a test drive and see for yourself.

KPV

Targa Tim,
Yup, I've saying it all along. Throw in a pulley and cold air intake and reclaim some of that power.

stv951

I'd still go for a 944 turbo S. These cars are amazing. Get some light mods done to it, and the car really flies. Handling is also brilliant on these, with brakes to match.

Christer

As I am in the UK; I am not totally au fait with US prices, but I wouldn't pass up a 964 model 911 - yes, initially there was some issues with oil leaks and the flywheel, but all these cars have now been updated most probably. I do around 7k miles per year in mine, it has been at the shop since Saturday for a yearly road inspection we have here in the UK and I miss it.

I miss the noise, the handling and the unsurpassed feel of the steering. OK, so it 'only' has 250hp (well mine has slightly more) but it does 0-100mph in 12.7 and the standing 1/4 in 13.4 - and did I mention the sound? Again a PPI is very important but mine has not ever let me down so far in 2 years and whilst I have some mods in, you may be able to get one with those thrown in to the price.

Lots of options out there, and a chance to own a bit of aircooled history of course. It sorts the men out from the boys - no PSM.

Cajun

Trojan Man,

Just a suggestion: Have you taken a look at the ZR1??? My buddy has a 1990 (arguably the fastest year with lighter weight than its successors and underrated HP).

I know that you can get one of these beasts with relatively low milage for 25 - 30k in awesome condition. Also, these cars can be made into MONSTERS very easily. Fortunately or Unfortunately (depending on whether you own one or not) the prices for these cars have taken a major hit. With the introduction of the Zo6, the demand for these cars seems to have tailed off a little bit...So good news if you are trying to pick one up.

Another point (and yes I am a Vette fan although I despise the C5), the Zr1 is more exclusive than the Zo6, just as fast (arguably faster), and is just plain gorgeous up close and personal.

I daily drove my '94 Vette for five years before retiring it with no comfort issues, and no engine issues.

Good luck with your decision...

Cajun

Fozzy

If (and that's a big if) you can find a really good one, I'd go for the 944 turbo in an instant. With only a few mods, it's a real grin to drive - chip it to bring down the turbo lag, upgrade the brakes and suspension, and definitely get a racing wastegate - listening to the howl when the turbo kicked in, you would have sworn you were in Airwolf (infinitely preferable to the 'A team' for Saturday evening viewing in my book).

Servicing's a doddle, they're almost indestructible, and it's a Porsche, which, with all due respect, I feel is a big deal when you're looking at Vipers, Minis etc. Avoiding the 'it's a classic you know <smug puff on pipe, pick remains of yesterdays lunch out of beard>, blah, blah' route, if you can hunt down a genuine item, you're also hopefully not going to lose much money on the car as long as you don't go way OTT on the modifications. Not sure you could say the same for a Vette or Viper. And god knows you'll need all the cash you can lay your hands on for the new house.

But that shouldn't be the reason to buy it - try and get a drive in one, I'm pretty sure it would convince you. And much as the early 911 / 964s are lovely, they're a bit of a pig for daily use.

bgainey

Have you driven a Viper? They are really junk! No room in the footwell and your feet are canted big time to the left. Hot and cramped inside, cheap plasticky interior. I really would not own an older Viper, unless it was just weekend use. Definately not a daily driver. I had a 96 NSX and those are awesome, reliable cars. I have also always thought the 944 turbos had a lot of bang for the buck, great handling car and easy to modify.

Good luck!

PCinDC

Ryan, honestly, if you can find a nice clean 944 Turbo and give it a test drive, I think you'll be quite surprised. As I mentioned above, you'll have a great performer well within your budget with room for track wheels/tires and performance mods. You'll also have a very comfortable daily driver and provided you do the routine maintenance (belts, waterpump etc) they are very reliable.
There's a guy over on the 944/951 boards (DFASTEST951) with a 550 RWHP 944T that he claims to have beaten GT2's with.

Last930

In addition to all the good things written about the 944 Turbo, you can also fit a full 5 piece set of drums in the car!! Try that in a Vette or Viper!!

Trojan Man

OK so it seems like the consensus is the 944 Turbo. You guys are saying it, my wallet is saying it...but I'm still hesitant. Part of what I'm looking for in a car is to turn heads, and IMHO, an old 944 doesn't do that - at least it doesn't turn my head.

Can anyone post pics or provide links to pics that might convince me otherwise. Basically the point is that I do not consider the 944 particularly attractive, but I am not totally closed-minded, so I need some convincing in this department.

Also, someone advised me to look at the '89 944 Turbo - is this THE model to get, or is some other year / model designation the way to go?

PCinDC

While taste is subjective, my opinion (and the opinions of thousands of 944/951 drivers here at the Rennlist) differs. I beleive (quite firmly) that the 944 model line is one of the best looking cars ever made, but obviously my opinion isn't going to sway yours. The car does get quite a bt of looks, with the exception of the 996 drivers who have their noses too far in the sky to notice much of anything around them.

You seem quite opposed to the 944 based upon it's stigma (as the bastard child of Porsche, the Old 4-Banger Porsche etc). Having never driven one, and yet seeming to have so much against the car, maybe it really isn't the car for you.

If you're looking for a status symbol, buy a Viper and try driving it every day.

If you're looking for a great (sleeper) sports car with plenty of performance on tap and room in your budget for modifications and track time, buy a 944 Turbo.

Jake951

Condition of the car is more important than the year. In stock form the '88 Turbo S and the '89 Turbo (same as the Turbo S, but they dropped the "S" designation) have higher performance than the '86, '87. and non-S '88 Turbos. However, once you get into mods, they can call be turned into very high performance machines.

I have an '89 Turbo with the GURU Racing MAP kit (http://www.gururacing.net ) which costs about $1k. The car is an absolute screamer. 911's feel slow in comparison. The big reason people buy the old 944 Turbo's is that they are so easy to upgrade for not a lot of $$. However, because their age you must stay on top of maintenance.

Check out the 944 Turbo & S forum here on Rennlist for discussion on performance mods and more.

blitz951

Most of the cars mentioned are nice but I would consider the 951. This is a car that with just a set of chips runs hard and if it is an S model with chips I would say it will impress you. If you want to beat all the cars you mentioned in a race including your 996 TT this car is capable of doing it for a few grand and considering you can get the car for a few grand it is a win win situation. Look at TonyG on the 944turbo forum. He runs his car at the track and in the straightaways he runs away from cars like the Z06 which is at least as fast as your 996TT. His car is a 2.5L but he's running a Garret turbo, MAF, head work and some other things Im sure but he's putting down close to 400RWHP @1 bar on pump gas. Thats just one example. The 951 also drives great, handles, has a good level of comfort and get good gas mileage. This is the most underrated sports car ever and if you dont believe me go drive one that is in respectable shape and has some modifications done to it. Try calling some of the tuners in your area and Im sure they can get you a ride in one. Good luck.

HBdirtbag

STi!