What happen To CJV?????
08-20-2003, 12:26 PM
#46
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Originally posted by Colm
I wouldn't go as far as Frosty.....but he does have point.
I think Chad alluded to his reasons for leaving, without spelling it out in great detail. John D. respected that and offered a "bridge" to Chad. When they finally have few a beers, I think all will be well.
We don't need to know the exact details..it's not really our business; and we have no right to antagonize either party based upon our perceptions of what might have happened.
Both Chad and John D. have helped a great many people, and both are human. Their Porsche passion is undisputed, and people who are passionate can do things in the "heat of the moment" that if they thought about they might not do upon reflection, for example, delete posts or make sharp retorts (not necessarily factual just examples).
Let's allow them to be human, forget about ascribing motives to anyone and wait and see what happens. I would like see Chad back on this forum, and I don't think he's too far away yet.
I wouldn't go as far as Frosty.....but he does have point.
I think Chad alluded to his reasons for leaving, without spelling it out in great detail. John D. respected that and offered a "bridge" to Chad. When they finally have few a beers, I think all will be well.
We don't need to know the exact details..it's not really our business; and we have no right to antagonize either party based upon our perceptions of what might have happened.
Both Chad and John D. have helped a great many people, and both are human. Their Porsche passion is undisputed, and people who are passionate can do things in the "heat of the moment" that if they thought about they might not do upon reflection, for example, delete posts or make sharp retorts (not necessarily factual just examples).
Let's allow them to be human, forget about ascribing motives to anyone and wait and see what happens. I would like see Chad back on this forum, and I don't think he's too far away yet.
You make some really good points and maybe he was just angry and reacted. However, it seems childish to go back and delete all your posts. To me, that is not a stand up guy at all. It reminds me of a kid I used to play with when I was 10. We would play pick-up football and basketball games and everytime he saw that his team was losing he would simply fold up and go home. He didn't like something, he would quit. I mean what was the point in deleting all the posts. Was he thinking, " I'll show them, I won't share anymore of my obvious superior knowledge and delete all my posts."To me that is ridiculous. If we had more people like that in this world, we would be in big trouble. Like I said, I do not know this go at all, but have read some of his posts. This entire thing just really struck a chord and got me going. What is wrong with people.
-Lou
08-20-2003, 02:16 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
I'm almost afraid to make any comment about the "cjv" issue and I think the nature of the dialogue here simply confirms that a forum that should embrace all those passionate about thier own personal projects/dream machines, and not belittle or take away the excitement instead. I've been very active on this board (albeit quietly) for some time and am always disapointed when the dialogue gets so personal. This is a medium to share passions about cars, Porsche specifically. As in life, not everyone is going to agree. Calling people childish, and attacking them personally for thier own beleifs and passions towards Porche, mods, or whatever motivates shy people like me (Porsche owner and fanatic) from putting my two sense in for fear of being ganged up on by know it all's who lambaste people who simply share different views.
Bottom line, CJV for whatever reason was driven away and I for one don't think it's a big mystery why. Just read the posts in this thread and you realize it has nothing to do with Porche.
Bottom line, CJV for whatever reason was driven away and I for one don't think it's a big mystery why. Just read the posts in this thread and you realize it has nothing to do with Porche.
08-20-2003, 02:27 PM
#48
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I would hope that some day soon Chad & John D could sit down together and work things out between them. It is frankly none of my business what went on between the two of them, or if Chad has decided to dedicate himself to another forum. It's Chad's decision, and I wish him the best at whatever he wants to do.
I for one will really miss Chad's input in this community, and I hope that he comes back. I would also extend a 'pat on the back' for Rennlist and John D. The ability of Rennlist to bring people like ourselves together and discuss common experiences is a very worthly service.
Both the board and Chad have been tremendous support for myself. I for one wish both Chad and John D good luck with reconciling whatever differences they may have.
John
I for one will really miss Chad's input in this community, and I hope that he comes back. I would also extend a 'pat on the back' for Rennlist and John D. The ability of Rennlist to bring people like ourselves together and discuss common experiences is a very worthly service.
Both the board and Chad have been tremendous support for myself. I for one wish both Chad and John D good luck with reconciling whatever differences they may have.
John
08-20-2003, 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by Westcoast996
Calling people childish, and attacking them personally for thier own beleifs and passions towards Porche, mods, or whatever motivates shy people like me (Porsche owner and fanatic) from putting my two sense in for fear of being ganged up on by know it all's who lambaste people who simply share different views.
Calling people childish, and attacking them personally for thier own beleifs and passions towards Porche, mods, or whatever motivates shy people like me (Porsche owner and fanatic) from putting my two sense in for fear of being ganged up on by know it all's who lambaste people who simply share different views.
-Lou
08-20-2003, 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by jro996turbo
I would hope that some day soon Chad & John D could sit down together and work things out between them. It is frankly none of my business what went on between the two of them, or if Chad has decided to dedicate himself to another forum. It's Chad's decision, and I wish him the best at whatever he wants to do.
I for one will really miss Chad's input in this community, and I hope that he comes back. I would also extend a 'pat on the back' for Rennlist and John D. The ability of Rennlist to bring people like ourselves together and discuss common experiences is a very worthly service.
Both the board and Chad have been tremendous support for myself. I for one wish both Chad and John D good luck with reconciling whatever differences they may have.
John
I would hope that some day soon Chad & John D could sit down together and work things out between them. It is frankly none of my business what went on between the two of them, or if Chad has decided to dedicate himself to another forum. It's Chad's decision, and I wish him the best at whatever he wants to do.
I for one will really miss Chad's input in this community, and I hope that he comes back. I would also extend a 'pat on the back' for Rennlist and John D. The ability of Rennlist to bring people like ourselves together and discuss common experiences is a very worthly service.
Both the board and Chad have been tremendous support for myself. I for one wish both Chad and John D good luck with reconciling whatever differences they may have.
John
I couldn't agree more with all your statements and I have learned from Chad's many posts. I also would tend to agree that what went on between John and Chad is none of my business. However, Chad deleted his posts so he put himself up to some questions and made this discussion what it is. IMO, bottom line, to delete posts for whatever reason is rediculous. What exactly did he accomplish??
-Lou
08-20-2003, 04:33 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
Originally posted by LSM
With all do respect, if you are referring to my calling cjv childish, that is how I feel. I am not attacking his personal beliefs, nor his passions toward Porsche. I for one think it is completely spineless and childish to throw a temper tantrum leave a messageboard and delete all your old posts. If you have issue with my opinion CJV or whoever you are then you are entitled, but, do not misquote and misrepresent what I said. He has expressed no opinion and is not really defending his desicion to delete files so I am simply making an observation based on my beliefs and what I believe to be true.
-Lou
With all do respect, if you are referring to my calling cjv childish, that is how I feel. I am not attacking his personal beliefs, nor his passions toward Porsche. I for one think it is completely spineless and childish to throw a temper tantrum leave a messageboard and delete all your old posts. If you have issue with my opinion CJV or whoever you are then you are entitled, but, do not misquote and misrepresent what I said. He has expressed no opinion and is not really defending his desicion to delete files so I am simply making an observation based on my beliefs and what I believe to be true.
-Lou
I said someone called him childish nothing more. You not only did that, but did it again in your response to me. Then you say even though you said that (twice) don't refer to it????? Thank you sir for making my point.
08-20-2003, 06:41 PM
#52
Rennlist Lifetime Member
I had originally planned on staying out of this but it has gotten to a point that someone needs to at least let you all know what the heck is going on.
Chad leaving Rennlist had nothing to do with speed or other. It did have everything to do with me. The exhaust testing was to be posted as a favor for me from John D on the Rennlist. He converted the files and hosted the information to allow all of us access to the testing results. That was the extent of John's involvement with this..period.
Chad and I got in to a discussion for the third time about the testing and procedures of the exhaust test. This was long after he and I had previously discussed the original procedures. One thing lead to another and a friendly debate started to tip into a banter session. Something that I will not support once the thread goes beyond any useful information. The conversation had an undertone of my testing being biased to one company or another. When the thread was clouded with banter I pulled it. In a private email I expressed my unhappiness to Chad and offered that if the results were biased would it had not been beneficial for me to fluff GHL since I do so much business with them and helped in a small manner with their TT exhaust almost a year ago? The retort was small and simple, he had told me he was leaving the list. The leaving of Chad had to do more with the misconception of politics between Me, Rennlist and GHL. As many of you know the results of GHL were anything but on top and I would have gained volumes by slanting that test. By doing that you also breech the one thing that allows me to sleep at night. Integrity. These test were conducted because YOU the list decided I would deliver the results as they really occurred. Not slanted by money or greed, but as the truth. I called Chad on the Monday the results were released and we had a nice chat. I had assumed all was well but apparently not. The bottom line is Chad was removing post that had anything to do with previous testing numbers posted by him. Not because of John or anyone else.
We all now know the results of the mufflers. The cost out of my pocket has certainly been small in comparison to the end results.
Hopefully this helps to clear the air about Mr Viso leaving.
Chad leaving Rennlist had nothing to do with speed or other. It did have everything to do with me. The exhaust testing was to be posted as a favor for me from John D on the Rennlist. He converted the files and hosted the information to allow all of us access to the testing results. That was the extent of John's involvement with this..period.
Chad and I got in to a discussion for the third time about the testing and procedures of the exhaust test. This was long after he and I had previously discussed the original procedures. One thing lead to another and a friendly debate started to tip into a banter session. Something that I will not support once the thread goes beyond any useful information. The conversation had an undertone of my testing being biased to one company or another. When the thread was clouded with banter I pulled it. In a private email I expressed my unhappiness to Chad and offered that if the results were biased would it had not been beneficial for me to fluff GHL since I do so much business with them and helped in a small manner with their TT exhaust almost a year ago? The retort was small and simple, he had told me he was leaving the list. The leaving of Chad had to do more with the misconception of politics between Me, Rennlist and GHL. As many of you know the results of GHL were anything but on top and I would have gained volumes by slanting that test. By doing that you also breech the one thing that allows me to sleep at night. Integrity. These test were conducted because YOU the list decided I would deliver the results as they really occurred. Not slanted by money or greed, but as the truth. I called Chad on the Monday the results were released and we had a nice chat. I had assumed all was well but apparently not. The bottom line is Chad was removing post that had anything to do with previous testing numbers posted by him. Not because of John or anyone else.
We all now know the results of the mufflers. The cost out of my pocket has certainly been small in comparison to the end results.
Hopefully this helps to clear the air about Mr Viso leaving.
08-20-2003, 07:21 PM
#53
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Originally posted by Westcoast996
This is exactly what I was talking about. I didn't quote you, didn't refer to you at all, and in fact didn't take note of who specifically mentioned that word. I wasn't referring to anything or anyone except the overall tone (way to personal) which reverberates even stronger now. You could not possibly know what anyone's motivation or feelings are unless they tell you. I'm simply amazed that you responded in an agressive way to a post that was not even remotely directed at you. On the one hand you demand not to be "misquoted" which you were not (hence no quotes), on the other you reaffirm that you do indeed think "...I for one think it is completely spineless and childish to throw a temper tantrum...." So which is it then?? Don't refer to the statement you've confirmed 100% is your actual opinion?
I said someone called him childish nothing more. You not only did that, but did it again in your response to me. Then you say even though you said that (twice) don't refer to it????? Thank you sir for making my point.
This is exactly what I was talking about. I didn't quote you, didn't refer to you at all, and in fact didn't take note of who specifically mentioned that word. I wasn't referring to anything or anyone except the overall tone (way to personal) which reverberates even stronger now. You could not possibly know what anyone's motivation or feelings are unless they tell you. I'm simply amazed that you responded in an agressive way to a post that was not even remotely directed at you. On the one hand you demand not to be "misquoted" which you were not (hence no quotes), on the other you reaffirm that you do indeed think "...I for one think it is completely spineless and childish to throw a temper tantrum...." So which is it then?? Don't refer to the statement you've confirmed 100% is your actual opinion?
I said someone called him childish nothing more. You not only did that, but did it again in your response to me. Then you say even though you said that (twice) don't refer to it????? Thank you sir for making my point.
I honestly do not want to start pushing this thread in the wrong direction. Just a couple comments. You could not possibly know if I responded in an agressive way as you do not know my state of mind, you are simply reading words and judging them agressive. I know you did not quote me verbatem however, I am the only one who mentioned "childish" It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who you were referring to. As far as being misquoted, what I meant was that you infered I was attacking Chad's personal beliefs and passions toward Porsche. That is not at all what I was doing or meant to do. I was stating and will state as many times as needed that I felt Chad removing his posts was childish and could be viewed as an individual who got angry and had a temper tantrum. That's my opinion. JUST A NOTE, TO ANY INDIVIDUALS WHO MAY READ THESE WORDS AND VIEW THEM AS AGRESSIVE.
-Lou
08-20-2003, 07:59 PM
#54
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To clear the record CJV Chad got a deal he couldn't refuse. Mary Carey a die hard porsche lover asked CJV to take over 6speedonline while she travels the state of california on her run for governer. He will also assist her in the election. Chad I wish you the best at 6speedonline and keep up the good work. As far as all the haters go get a life go racing.
George
George
08-20-2003, 09:02 PM
#55
Thanks Stephen for being so open and honest. In my opinion, this attitude will greatly benefit you in the long-term.
Although your muffler tests were very carefully done and you meant well, they only apply to your car's setup. The fact that you didn't make this clear up front may have upset some people.
Unfortunately, performance improvements are often best shown by analysis and simulation, not testing on one platform (your car) under somewhat controlled, but not perfectly controlled conditions. The tools to do this correctly are very expensive and often proprietary.
In other words, if you repeated your tests on a Ruf R Turbo, it wouldn't surprise me if the Ruf muffler gave the best acceleration performance (not highest HP or TQ). Proper exhaust tuning contributes to fast turbo spool-up and maximum steady-state flow.
I also agree that the catalytic converters have a dramatic effect on overall performance, probably much more than the muffler itself. Ruf spent a great effort on my Turbo R to replace the elements in my catalytics with more free-flow elements. With matching ECU programming and turbos, the performance increase is dramatic.
Although your muffler tests were very carefully done and you meant well, they only apply to your car's setup. The fact that you didn't make this clear up front may have upset some people.
Unfortunately, performance improvements are often best shown by analysis and simulation, not testing on one platform (your car) under somewhat controlled, but not perfectly controlled conditions. The tools to do this correctly are very expensive and often proprietary.
In other words, if you repeated your tests on a Ruf R Turbo, it wouldn't surprise me if the Ruf muffler gave the best acceleration performance (not highest HP or TQ). Proper exhaust tuning contributes to fast turbo spool-up and maximum steady-state flow.
I also agree that the catalytic converters have a dramatic effect on overall performance, probably much more than the muffler itself. Ruf spent a great effort on my Turbo R to replace the elements in my catalytics with more free-flow elements. With matching ECU programming and turbos, the performance increase is dramatic.
08-20-2003, 09:39 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
Greg Fishman's point is well-taken. As long as everbody told Chad what a great guy he was, everything was great. Stephen also enjoys a position of respect on this board, but Chad apparantly couldn't give him the same respect he demanded for himself- so he picked up all his toys and went home.
The bit about the new gig sounds like BS. There is no reason to delete all his posts and leave without a farewell. For whatever reason, and regardless of what people think of CJV's contribution, he took a dump at the door on his way out. None of the people who took him seriously deserved that kind of disrespect. I'll go on record as saying it's the mark of the man. He spent a lot of money and enjoyed the accolades of this crowd, but he couldn't share the podium. AS
The bit about the new gig sounds like BS. There is no reason to delete all his posts and leave without a farewell. For whatever reason, and regardless of what people think of CJV's contribution, he took a dump at the door on his way out. None of the people who took him seriously deserved that kind of disrespect. I'll go on record as saying it's the mark of the man. He spent a lot of money and enjoyed the accolades of this crowd, but he couldn't share the podium. AS
08-20-2003, 10:46 PM
#57
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Chad is a great guy
Stephen is a great guy
John is a great guy
Now let's stop this silly nonsense and opining with perceptions of the facts.
Frankly, some of the above posts reflect very poorly on Rennlist members (IMO).
None of us are perfect, and to continue to pick on Chad about removing his posts is to take " a holier than thou attitude" ...Rennlist is not a church.
Let me raise a different question:
Who owns a post?
And another question (related to "Is it better to have loved and lost, than not to have love at all" (Willie))
Are we better of for having been exposed to all the painful research that Chad did?
Let's keep that in mind.
I have never got the impression that Chad ever wanted to play "king of the hill" more he was about the "pursuit of perfection"
Stephen, it takes a great guy to step up to the plate, I admire you for it.
Stephen is a great guy
John is a great guy
Now let's stop this silly nonsense and opining with perceptions of the facts.
Frankly, some of the above posts reflect very poorly on Rennlist members (IMO).
None of us are perfect, and to continue to pick on Chad about removing his posts is to take " a holier than thou attitude" ...Rennlist is not a church.
Let me raise a different question:
Who owns a post?
And another question (related to "Is it better to have loved and lost, than not to have love at all" (Willie))
Are we better of for having been exposed to all the painful research that Chad did?
Let's keep that in mind.
I have never got the impression that Chad ever wanted to play "king of the hill" more he was about the "pursuit of perfection"
Stephen, it takes a great guy to step up to the plate, I admire you for it.
08-21-2003, 12:20 AM
#58
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Originally posted by cjv
Hey guy's, this is better than being able to witness my own funeral.
Hey guy's, this is better than being able to witness my own funeral.
That's funny stuff. At least they are grateful.
And for once I believe I agree with George, we should all just shut up, and go drive our cars. 