polar3

2 weeks ago, I noticed WOT in 4th and 5th would result in flying rpms just like the clutch is slipping. I've got winter tires on. Now that the weather is warming up the car doesn't behave like this any more. So now I'm thinking it was the winter tires loosing grip instead of the clutch. Anyone else experience this?

jpeytonii

Did you experience loss of grip or just racing revs? You should be able to tell the difference. Did you experience this in the lower gears as well? Everything else being equal (road conditions, etc.) you would be more likely to spin the tires in the lower gears vs. 4th or 5th. From your description and if it was only in 4th and 5th gears it sounds like clutch to me.

Cheers

polar3

I felt racing revs more than loss of grip. It doesn't do this in the lower gears even in at WOT. I was almost positive that it was my clutch going but the weird part is that the clutch is holding at WOT in higher gears now (temp. has warmed up). I see your point about loosing grip more easily in the lower gears. I just figured winter tires werent meant to perform as well at speeds of 95miles plus.

jpeytonii

If you lost grip in 4th gear to the point that the revs start racing up I am pretty sure you would know. Was the car stable or dancing around? Here's another one - was PSM on or off? If PSM was on it definitely was your clutch because the computers would be trying to retard the throttle to stop the wheel spin otherwise.

There is another post on 6speed where the poster is experiencing similar intermittent clutch issues with the cold weather.

Cheers

JG 996T

I had same issue - pretty sure its the snow tires.

Kevinmacd

A quick way to check the clutch is to drive about 30 mph put it in 5 th gear and mash the throttle. Of course this causes a a lug situtation, but puts torque on the drive train. Try it when not fully warmed up then when fully warmed up. Do it for a short time.

Macster

Not particularly in agreement with this. I do not like to abuse (in some manner) the engine/drivetrain) in order to possibly confirm a clutch issue.

If the clutch's condition is such it is slipping, with the engine/drivetrain fully up to temp a hard acceleration in a high gear from some reasonable rpm starting point (one at which the engine should experience full boost in short order) should have the the clutch slipping if it is going to slip.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Kevinmacd

Hey mac it's a common way to see if it's slipping. One time is not going to cause any damage. Your method only shows up a clutch slip when severly worn. The high gear low speed method provide max torque to verify overall condition. Sorry if you disagree, but this is a common practice, and pretty much full proof and never heard of any determental problem from this type of test.

Macster

I was objecting to your recommendation to do this test "not fully warmed up".

I repeat I see no reason to subject even this once the engine/drive train to abuse -- hard acceleration still cold -- just to diagnose a slipping clutch.

Besides, a slipping clutch is pretty easy to diagnose without have to resort to extreme tests.

(One such test -- which was common some years ago but has fallen out of favor(thank goodness) -- was to put the transmission into 4th gear and let the clutch out, pop the clutch, with the engine at idle and then give the throttle some gas. If the engine died the clutch was ok. A rather horrific test.)

If the OP wants to after warming everything up take the car out and in a 4th or 5th gear at some reasonable rpm so as not to subject the engine to lugging floor the throttle so see if the clutch slips that's ok, I guess.

If the clutch is really slipping just driving the car around some will have this evident and with no need to abuse anything.

If the clutch is found to be slipping, well, it was suspected to be slipping to begin with. If not then one hasn't subjected the rest of the car, the engine, to some level of abuse to diagnose a slipping clutch.

Of course, once the clutch is clearly diagnosed as slipping keeping any further slippage to a minimum -- I would prefer to simply have the clutch replaced once the diagnosis has been made -- to avoid possibly overheating the flywheel is advised.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Kevinmacd

Mac you are just hitting the throttle for a second you are not taking the revs up, you are just seeing if the clutch when cold will slip. Clutches, pressure plates and flywheels when hot expand, in case you didn't know that. So it is needed for both hot and warm conditions. By doing a short test when cold it is not determental to anything, especially since in 5th gear at 30 you will be way under 3K rpm. Secondly you only hit the throttle for a very very short period of time, full torque does not even come into play. But based on your comments and lack of understanding I recommend YOU don't try it. It's pretty obvious you don't know the proceedure and duration of the test.

Kevin

Where is your clutch pedal position? Is the engagement up towards the top? IF it is>>your clutch lining is worn.

SSST

I don't mean to hijack, but under normal street use, mixed city and highway, how many miles are typical for a clutch on these cars. I know there are a lot of variables, like driver skill, but I'm just looking for a typical range.

Macster

Good grief. It is not the duration of the load that I object to, but simply the load when the engine is not up to temp.

Just as higher rpms are to be avoided until the engine is warmed up high loads are to be avoided, too.

The amount of expansion of the clutch/flywheel is a factor of the thickness of the material. A clutch disc and a flywheel are thin discs and the expansion of their thickness when up to temp is nil, of no consequence.

The few times I had a car with a slipping clutch it slipped cold, warm or hot. I just see no reason to subject the engine to a load cold when there's no need.

IOWs, I prefer not to risk the patient's life to diagnose a non-fatal illness.

Of course the OP can do whatever tests he wants with the car dead cold, warm, or hot.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Macster

My 03 has over 88K miles on its original clutch and I expect (hope anyhow) the clutch lasts at least double those miles.

(My 02 Boxster has over 251K miles on its original clutch so I'm thinking the Turbo ought to come close to that.)

Sincerely,

Macster.

polar3

Hey Kevin, engagement is still the same. Near the bottom.