Spidey 993

I'm considering a 996TT for a DD. I live in Colorado, and have kids, so need the 4WD and back seats.

I'm learning alot about the car, but lack the undestanding of how much they are worth market value. Much better handle on the 993s.

I am looking for a lower mileage <40k, Guards Red, Yellow or White and in the $45k-$50k max range.

Can I get some input on these two cars on Autotrader, point at what is good, bad and teach me a little bit on what to look out for? On top of that, are these good deals?

Yellow:
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

Red:
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...e&rdpage=thumb

I'm very open to buying a RL car, but I don't see any for sale in my color preference and price range.

Cheers,
Tony

JG 996T

For your stated price range your should be able to find what you are looking for. I didn't study your listings, but noticed that the yellow car has had the GT2 slave/accum mod done - that is a plus IMO. A minus is the flash, again IMO. Check for spoiler hydraulics issues.
Red car had aerokit, so no problem with hydraulics going forward.

Again, I think you should be able to find a nice example within your stated price range. As always, get an independent PPI.

And finally,it will make a great daily driver - get a second set of wheels with snow tires, and you're good to go

Good luck with the search.

Spidey 993

I appreciate that input. PPI is a must, will do.

I realized the original red one I choose was a tip, bummer!
I replaced that with a manual car in my listing above.

JG 996T

Do a search on 2001 v 2002. There were some minor changes (glove box, cup holder) and some say structural/chassis, but that's hard to confirm/debatable.

02+ seem to trade at a higher price.

I would opt for sport seats v. comfort seats. I would stay away from light interior. Tan is ok, but light gray is not - and marks scuffs show. Black or dark (metro) blue are nice.

Macster

The pics of the yellow car do not provide good views -- the pics of the red car are much more to my liking -- so I hope you will visit the car in person and check it out. I like to see head on, full side, full rear views, 3/4 views to try to spot any irregular body panel gaps, fits, headlight misfits. Ideally I like to be able to see the A/C condensors in each corner and to see if they both look the same.

The red car looks darn good. The yellow too but as I said above the pics are skimpy.

I am not current on used Turbo prices, so I can't comment on the quality of the deal other to offer the obvious observation that the price is not a fact, onlyh an opinion. Many have managed to buy very nice cars for less than the seller's asking price.

Right now the question is do you want to buy one or the other car?

Both of these cars are just used cars so a good used car check out will go a long way to help you identify a car that deserves further consideration or one that does not.

I like to recommend that the buyer have the seller take him out as a passenger so the passenger, you in this case, can experience the car without having to focus on driving an unfamiliar car in an unfamiliar area.

Visit the car with the engine dead cold. Before you head out turn on the key and observe all dash warning lights come on then go off. All are important but you want to pay particular attention to the CEL. Be sure the A/C is off. If on the fans can run all the time and this works to keep the engine cooler than it would get otherwise. You can test the A/C after the test ride/drive.

When you start the engine the warning lights should go out.

Start the engine and listen. Oh a slow cranking engine may be due to a weak battery. Not a show stopper but you need to make a mental note.

Anyhow, you need to know what a healthy sounding Turbo engine sounds like.

The engine can idle a bit rough at first but as it warms up the idle should smooth out and slow down. Listen for any abnormal noises.

Let the engine idle until it is quite warm. You want to while you can walk around the car listen to the engine as it goes from cold, to warm, to nearly hot.

If you can let the engine idle until it is warm enough you can do an oil level check.

Have the driver pick a route -- 15 miles or so -- that gives the driver to demo the car in a variety of scenarios. One hard acceleration down the block and back ain't nearly good enough.

While you are a passenger observe the oil pressure gage, the boost gage, the volt gage. Hot idle oil pressure should be between 1 and 2 bars. Just guessing about the low number. For my 03 Turbo I have found with the engine fully warmed up the oil pressure hovers between approx. 1.75 bar to 2 bar. At 3K the oil pressure shows around 4.5 bar.

Hot idle oil pressure lower than even 1.5 bar, down to maybe 1.0 bar may be ok. I've never asked my favorite Porsche techs what's the lowest the low oil pressure could be before it becomes a show stopper.

Lower than even 1.5 bar may be ok -- there may be some gage differences -- but higher may be someone running a thicker oil to mask engine noises.

If after the 15 mile test ride back at the starting point if you still like the car take it out as a driver and follow the same route, drive the car the same way.

Back after your test drive again listen to what should be a fully warmed up car, engine and drivetrain. It would be nice to hear the radiator fans come on along with the engine compartment fan. They should shut off on their own too after running a bit.

If you still like the car check out all the other systems.

If you still like the car have it subjected to a PPI. This looks for signs of accident damage, sub-standard repairs, etc. The car has to be lifted in the air, of course. Leaks are looked for. Where? Everywhere. Engine of course, but tranny, diffs, coolant hoses, radiators, steering rack, and so on.

A DME readout should be done and you need to see the overrev counts and engine run times for each range and total engine run time.

Total engine run time divided into the odometer reading should give you the car's average speed. Say the car has 50K miles and the run time is 3333 hours. This works out to around 15mph average speed. That's low. For most cars the average speed wants to be closer to 30mph. Way less could mean the odometer has been tampered with. The engine run time is harder to tamper with.

The PPI also sees the car after 30+ miles of driving so this gives any leaks a chance to show themselves.

Anyhow, that's just a quick coverage.

Sincerely,

Macster.

SSST

You should be able to find a nice example of a 996TT in your price range. Get the newest you can afford. There were some minor structural and mechanical improvements, and the addition of MOST fiber optics (not sure that's a big plus) in 02.

Spidey 993

Thanks guys for the input, very helpful.

Macster, thanks as well for the comprehensive pre-PPI items to check that I can do myself before moving forward.

BTW, if there are any RL on here sitting on the fence, please let me know. I would prefer to buy in house.

Cheers,
Tony

Spidey 993

Funny how you forget the horror stories moments making random calls on cars for sale.

I just called on a Red 996TT X50 for $50k. I had to go through a AutoTrader VIP program to get him on the line. He comes on line, speaks no English.
I asked him for interior pics of the car since he only posted exterior. His response was its black just like all the other black interior cars. Would I like to buy it?

I just hung up. Let the games begin!

syncrofly

I just bought an 01 Turbo in Dec for $38.5 and have been meaning to write some tips I wished I'd used before purchase. In the PPI pay for a couple more hours and pay to pressurize the intake. It can shake loose a variety of bugs. I've paid to drop the engine twice to shake out a bunch of incorrect parts some bonehead substituted from a 993 into the 996 in a repair. The second gear pop-out issue is an expensive repair, triple check for it ($3-5K). Drive it at least 30 miles.. and some portion of those miles in a spirited fashion.. all sorts of problems that can be manipulated for an inspection will pop up on a lengthier drive. I shopped online, had 2 PPI's done on the same car, but just flew in and drove out and even though it was a Porsche dealer....clearly guys were trying to pass the buck. Just finished $11K in repairs and rounding the corner towards 15.

Spidey 993

Kelly, sounds like you did your due diligence and then some and still have some excessive and expensive repairs.

You just never 100% know sometimes I suppose. Sorry to hear that but I'm sure its a great car and you'll get years of enjoyment from it.

TheSilverFox

Hey Spidey, I just went through the process and am a fairly methodical person. Spent several months researching and shopping. FYI, ended up buying a 2002 996tt w/ 22K miles for $47.5K. Advice I got was that I was overpaying for the car at that price. Was told I should have paid low to mid $40's. The car was very clean with service records from a private owner so I was willing to pay it. Seller never called back after my final offer so I knew it was as low as he was going to go. Plus it had black interior, a must for me.

Common issues are rear spoiler hydraulics, clutch accumulator, 2nd gear pop out. Get a PPI!!! Almost bought another 996 x50 when I first started that was $8K more and needed $4K in work.

In the end, really glad I bought it. My first Porsche

Ben_C

Wow...synchro that is not a good story. I have just purchased long distance, hopefully I have better luck!! I didn't get the over rev count either which I kicked myself later for but the deal is done now, just waiting for delivery.
Cheers Ben

Spidey 993

Funny how we spend $40-50k on our cars and people focus on the $2k we overpaid. Sounds like you got a smoking deal to me. Hard to put a price on a great feeling especially with your first Porsche.

Cheers!

SSST

After reading your story synchro, I guess I got lucky. Bought mine from P dealer, but had them do the PPI to CPO it. Got a good deal, and the car hasn't even hiccuped. I had an irregular idle develop when cold, but cleaned the MAF and that cured it.

I did take a 20 mile test drive though and put it through it's paces. Like Macster said, there is nothing like a long test drive over a variety of situations to expose a problem.

95carrera

Haven't found mine yet but just got depressed when I read Syncrofly had to put in another 10k plus in repairs after TWO PPI's! That is depressing.

Problem I have had is that most of these cars are at used car dealers. The games these dealers play are insulting. I would much prefer to buy from an individual but the odds are against that. The dealers I have spoke to typically misrepresent the cars or are completely lacking in details or knowledge. Like the earlier post, the attitude seems to simply be "Well, do you want to buy it?"