Dock

But that additional effort does not mean there is any additional pressure on the shift forks.

haulinkraut

Dock,
The easiest way to not be "ham fisted" is to not put a shifter in a car that is more difficult to use. Shorter shifters require more force from the driver period. If you want another perspective on short shifters, talk to somebody who rebuilds transmissions like G-box.

haulinkraut

Normally it doesn't increase the load on the shift forks. But a short shifter has a smaller shift pattern, does it not? That makes a misshift easier to happen verse a stock shifter, wouldn't you agree? Kinda like trying to throw an apple at a barrel verses a quarter. And what do most people do when they miss a shift? They panic and struggle for a gear. This also causes the natural reaction of applying more force quicker. Under normal shifts this isn't an issue. A smooth normal throw shifter is often times quicker because it is more precise and smooth. You also have less chances of miss shifts.

Mikelly

It's a B&M and not a Porsche manufactured part. My experience with the B&M shifter in multiple makes/models hasn't been good... Corvettes, Mustangs, now porsches... No thanks.

haulinkraut

The shifter pivots at same location for aft and forward movements as it does left an right so the distance is reduced all around. I do agree with your thoughts on technique, but it is not the only factor in the equation.

Mikelly

Kevin, My take on that is that the transmission was jacked up by the previous owner. I knew there was a notchy issue with the trans when I bought the car, and should have insisted the issue be resolved before I bought the car. I didn't. The B&M may have been the issue, or it may have been the previous owner's inability to adjust the cables.

In doing research on the various shifters out there, I ended up replacing the B&M with the 997OEM, and then the 997SSK.

From my friends at Suncoast Porsche:

When the 2010 GT3 Shift console first arrived, we put them all in a row and examined them all. We didn't notice any throw-difference between the stock and GT3 version. They both would extend to the same positions, the 997 short shifter was the only exception.

The 997 GT3 (2010) is not a short shifter from what I've seen, you will notice that that the GT3 and standard version are at a parallel position.


Pics can be seen here on page 4 of the thread...

Mike

Dock

I agree the short shifter has shorter fore/aft throws. I do not agree that shorter fore/aft throws make misshifts easier.

My original entry into this thread was based on Larry stating that Kevin had been seeing problems with the 997 SSK. I wanted to know what kind of problems the 997SSK was having. The discussion that has followed indicates to me that it's not a case of the 997SSK having problems, it's a case of some drivers having problems with their technique.

I've had a B&M shifter in my Turbo for over seven years. No problems at all with the shifting.

Dock

B&M made the OEM 996 Turbo shifter.

OEM 996 Turbo shifter = manufactured by B&M
B&M Short Shifter for the 996 Turbo = Manufactured by B&M

(Back in '04 I called B&M, worked through several people to get to one of their design engineers, and asked him about this directly).

Mikelly

Examples of the three shifters, 997, 997GT3, 997SSK...





Since spending LOTS and rebuilding my transmission with new mainshaft, syncros, gears, and all internal parts, my shifter works very well. It is not notchy, and the transmission shifts accurately and precisely. I have zero issues with the function of the 997SSK, which has only been in the car since the new trans rebuild was completed.
Mike

Mikelly

I don't buy that for a second. Not that you made the call and spoke to someone there who claimed that. But I don't buy that Porsche would contract to a company like B&M to make their "OEM 996SSK Part". I just don't see that in 1 million years...

It wouldn't be the first time a company lied to a customer...

And Dock, how many miles you have on your car in 8 years? You have to use it in order to have it develop problems there, man!
Hahaha
Mike

Dock

The mechanics reducing the fore/aft throws is obviously an increase in the distance between the shifter pivot point and the cable connection point. I do not believe the horizontal distances are shortened as much as the fore/aft distance (but it's been seven years since I installed the shifter, so I reserve the right to revise my comments on this).

As I said, if a driver allows the spring to position the shifter horizontally (in those cases where the spring is designed to do that), there is little to no chance of a misshift (even if the horizontal distances are reduced from those on the OEM shifter).

Additionally, even if a SSK requires a little more driver attention (until he engrains the technique), that does not mean there is a problem with the SSK itself.

Dock

You drive a manual, right? Then you should know that the total number of shifts is not based solely on total miles. It is based on the number of shifts/mile.

haulinkraut

I agree that the shorter fore and aft shifts would not make miss shifts easier, but you also have shorter throw left and right which makes it easier to miss shifts(remember, same pivot point). If you can't see how that is possible, then I can't provide any further input
to help you understand. It all comes to taking a possible issue with ones shifting(which may be caused by tranny issues, technique or other shifter issues) and trying to fix it with a short shifter. If you have tranny issues or are having issues shifting due to technique than a short shifter will only be a bandaide that can compound the issue. If you shift perfect 100% of the time, than it won't be a factor for you.

As far as other tranny damage goes, if you increase the speed you shift and do not double clutch you will add more wear to the synchros. If you don't believe me, talk to a tranny builder. Trained race car drivers transmissions see alot of synchro wear and they know how to shift too.

Dock

The left/right distance may be a little shorter than OEM, but again, with proper technique this is not an issue.

I believe the problem some drivers have is one "shortcutting" their shifts when they pass through neutral, attempting to make what is essentially a "straight line" shift gear-to-gear instead of going horizontally through neutral. If the driver would either manually guide their shifter horizontally in neutral until it is in the correct left/right position, or allow the shifter spring to position the shifter under/over the chosen gear, they wouldn't have an issue with the SSK shortened horizontal distance. In terms of the 4-5 shift, if the driver moves the shifter horizontally to the right in neutral until he reaches the stop, then moves the shifter forward into 5th, there should be no issue with the shorter horizontal distance. Similarly, on a 3-2 downshift, if the driver moves the shifter to the left through neutral to the left stop (and does not exert 40 lbs of pressure on what is a movement that should take ounces of pressure), then there shouldn't be an issue with the reduced horizontal distance in the SSK.

A driver can shift a SSK as slowly as he can shift an OEM shifter.

jcb-memphis

Hi.


I have a 996 turbo and it came with a factory ssk. It was oem'd from B&M.

No tranny or other issues. Now, I had Dougherty Auto Sport in Philly (DAS, DAS bars...) rebuild the tranny due to the prior owner causing 2nd gear pop-out. In the process, the now famous mod was done to prevent this from happening and the mechanic, a chief mechanic for Rolex teams....., spent a lot of time adjusting the shifter. A lot. He explained to me that a huge number of issues can be simply due to the fact that adjusting the shifter is a major PITA.

With the new tranny, but before he had at it, shifting was notchy. With his work, it shifted "smooth as butter" and remains so.


-> You can get the B&M to shift wonderfully. It is very hard to do so. The good news: it has remained stable for 2 years and a lot of fun driving.


Jeff