Notices
996 Turbo Forum 1999-2005
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

error code P1325

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 03-04-2011 | 06:17 PM
  #31  
Hoosier_Daddy's Avatar
Hoosier_Daddy
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 978
Likes: 33
From: New Jersey
Default

Originally Posted by PorscheDoc
What idiot thought that as a good idea?
Certainly not one who'll offer any goodwill if indeed is reading this thread.
Old 03-04-2011 | 07:12 PM
  #32  
PorscheDoc's Avatar
PorscheDoc
Addict
Rennlist Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,058
Likes: 11
From: Under Your Car
Default

Originally Posted by Hoosier_Daddy
Certainly not one who'll offer any goodwill if indeed is reading this thread.
Honestly, if you are hoping for goodwill from Porsche based off a few experiences on rennlist, you are in for a sad awakening. "Oh heck, some guys on rennlist don't think our motors should be coming apart at 90k miles, lets throw them a new motor." I've been in the business too long to know they don't consider this an issue. Porsche doesn't make mistakes. The new RS's are now shattering IMS's and they don't think it is an issue. They are fully aware of this issue with the cams and tappets at Porsche Logistics, and they don't think it is an issue. Car is out of warranty....NOT their issue.

On another note, I think I have sourced a good low mileage engine for cheap, so we will probably not even attempt this one. Parts and cheap labor were already over 10k without doing anything else besies a clutch going back in.
Old 03-04-2011 | 08:16 PM
  #33  
Macster's Avatar
Macster
Race Director
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,032
Likes: 256
From: Centerton, AR
Default

Originally Posted by Kevin
jp > Did you see my RANT's in the previous oil thread?? Can I say Mobil 1 5W40 TDT.. Can I say, change your oil sooner!

Macster, Yes, I know what the operating conditions are > the mapping is based off load vs RPM.
"the mapping is based off load vs RPM". Can you be more specfic?

Sincerely,

Macster.
Old 03-04-2011 | 08:25 PM
  #34  
jpflip's Avatar
jpflip
Three Wheelin'
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,525
Likes: 188
From: Montreal Québec Canada
Default

Macster if you happen to have the book "Porsche 996 the essential companion" the vario cam system is well explain.... Page 169-170-171


Or this explanation from 911hq.com


So what is VarioCam Plus?
Basically VarioCam Plus is a system that uses variable valve timing in conjunction with two stage valve lift on the intake side. As mentioned above the benefits to using this technology is a smother running engine, greater power and torque and better fuel consumption along with lower exhausts emissions.
You could say that this technology makes two engines out of one, in that the system facilitates optimum performance in both normal driving and high speed driving. Despite the chasm between the two driving state, VarioCam Plus achieves this by using the latest in electronic engine management system, which switches perfectly between the two state of driving. The result is greater acceleration and much smother running.

An electro hydraulically switchable tappet is a part of the two stage lift mechanism on each inlet valve. Each of the 12 tappets is made up of two concentric parts; the outer ring and a central shaft, if required, they can be locked together by way of a pin, and this is all done at the command of the engine management system. The result is that the system is now able to vary the valve lift by utilizing two large cams on the outer ring or a smaller cam lobe on the central shaft. This brought about by an electro hydraulic rotary vane adjuster at the head of the respective camshafts which facilitates the seamless timing of each valve.
Another benefit of VarioCam Plus is that it improves the engine's responsiveness during warm up in cold weather; this is accomplishes by selecting the higher lift setting and delaying the valve timing.
When the engine has low loads and medium revs, the lowered valve lift setting is activated which in turns helps to reduce fuel consumption and emissions. The engine's economy is especially improved at lower engine speeds. Conversely, maximum power and torque are achieved when the higher lift setting is selected thus allowing the timing of the valves to advance.
Consequently the engine delivers abundant torque and excellent fuel economy, relative to sports cars with similar sized engines and power output.
Old 03-04-2011 | 09:11 PM
  #35  
PorscheDoc's Avatar
PorscheDoc
Addict
Rennlist Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,058
Likes: 11
From: Under Your Car
Default

Here are a couple pictures of the cam:

Passenger side. The missing center ring correlates to the groove seen in my early front cam housing picture.


And the driver side intake cam. Notice it still has all 3 rings.


And a little better picture of one of the cam housing brackets. Pretty major crack starting.
Old 03-04-2011 | 09:39 PM
  #36  
Macster's Avatar
Macster
Race Director
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,032
Likes: 256
From: Centerton, AR
Default

Originally Posted by jpflip
Macster if you happen to have the book "Porsche 996 the essential companion" the vario cam system is well explain.... Page 169-170-171


Or this explanation from 911hq.com


So what is VarioCam Plus?
Basically VarioCam Plus is a system that uses variable valve timing in conjunction with two stage valve lift on the intake side. As mentioned above the benefits to using this technology is a smother running engine, greater power and torque and better fuel consumption along with lower exhausts emissions.
You could say that this technology makes two engines out of one, in that the system facilitates optimum performance in both normal driving and high speed driving. Despite the chasm between the two driving state, VarioCam Plus achieves this by using the latest in electronic engine management system, which switches perfectly between the two state of driving. The result is greater acceleration and much smother running.

An electro hydraulically switchable tappet is a part of the two stage lift mechanism on each inlet valve. Each of the 12 tappets is made up of two concentric parts; the outer ring and a central shaft, if required, they can be locked together by way of a pin, and this is all done at the command of the engine management system. The result is that the system is now able to vary the valve lift by utilizing two large cams on the outer ring or a smaller cam lobe on the central shaft. This brought about by an electro hydraulic rotary vane adjuster at the head of the respective camshafts which facilitates the seamless timing of each valve.
Another benefit of VarioCam Plus is that it improves the engine's responsiveness during warm up in cold weather; this is accomplishes by selecting the higher lift setting and delaying the valve timing.
When the engine has low loads and medium revs, the lowered valve lift setting is activated which in turns helps to reduce fuel consumption and emissions. The engine's economy is especially improved at lower engine speeds. Conversely, maximum power and torque are achieved when the higher lift setting is selected thus allowing the timing of the valves to advance.
Consequently the engine delivers abundant torque and excellent fuel economy, relative to sports cars with similar sized engines and power output.
Do not yet have the Porsche 996 Essential Companion book. I'll order it today.

I do know what VarioCam and VarioCam Plus are, what they do, in a general way.

I have some details on the lower level workings of the VarioCam system in my 02 Boxster. And believe it or not, I have a Turbo intake valve zero-lash lifter at my desk which of course not only provides for zero-lash valve clearance but has the mechanism which is used (under hydraulic control ultimately controlled by the engine controller) to select between the inner or outer lifter portion which changes which of the two different cam lobe profiles -- one a high lift and the other a low lift and with probably different timings as well -- the lifter and ultimately the valve follow.

But what I don't know -- and I hope the 996 Essential... book has this info -- is exactly when exactly under what conditions does the Turbo engine controller decide to advance/retard the intake valve timing and for VarioCam Plus when it does it advance/retard the intake valve timing and when does it switch from reduced lift to high lift or vice versa?

Sincerely,

Macster.
Old 03-04-2011 | 11:25 PM
  #37  
Kevin's Avatar
Kevin
Addict
Rennlist Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor

 
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,348
Likes: 348
From: Northwest
Default

Macster you have various maps running at once. Throttle request, is a input. Temperature allows the load maps to be enabled. Like when you want "boost" you are actually the ECU to produce more load.
Old 03-05-2011 | 01:20 AM
  #38  
jpflip's Avatar
jpflip
Three Wheelin'
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,525
Likes: 188
From: Montreal Québec Canada
Default

Guess what I did after reading these 3 pages
Attached Images  
Old 03-05-2011 | 11:22 AM
  #39  
MechanicalEng's Avatar
MechanicalEng
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 790
Likes: 0
From: Baltimore MD
Default

So why does this kind of failure happen? could it be human error at assembly? (at Stutgart) maybe they missed that ring on the camshaft? besides changing the oil with 5-40 every other day what else can one do to avoid these failures??
Old 03-05-2011 | 02:24 PM
  #40  
joelesmith's Avatar
joelesmith
Thread Starter
Advanced
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: Hillsboro, Oregon
Default

Doc,
I have it up on stands and I am getting ready to drop the engine. Before I was kinda scared to disassemble my motor. now i'm terrified. Maybe if the Porsche reps see an engine break at 24,000 miles they will take one off the assembly line and send it to Oregon, lol. Please keep us updated on your progress, I know it is going to help me out.
How did the Variocam look? I had the same metal particles on the actuator valve, and was thinking they came from the actuator, on the cam.
Joel

Last edited by joelesmith; 03-05-2011 at 02:43 PM.
Old 03-05-2011 | 03:49 PM
  #41  
PAULUNM's Avatar
PAULUNM
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 901
Likes: 9
From: Los Angeles
Default

Originally Posted by Kevin
I'm going to do a little RANT>>> Porsche executives read these threads but they don't offer any solutions. Either on the forum or in private emails. I have torn apart 3 engines with faulty intake tappets >> they FALL apart when you remove the intake camshafts. I have had three customers within the last 3 years require all the lifters and camhousing on one bank replaced. One customer had to replace his head (valve guide got worn beyond spec) I actually received the head for inspection.

Right now we have Doc's engine and Joel's engine along with a customer who I think is near to having his engine removed.

Karl, the metal HAS to go thru the engine. Did this engine have a DUAL MASS flywheel? Guys>> Dual Mass flywheels and the track are NOT good! We are seeing accelerated crankshaft thrust bearing wear. This was reported years ago.

This issue is NOT just contained to the 996TT engine, the 997.1TT will see it also.

Guys change your oil more often, inspect your oil filter and replace the filter at 1/2 your oil change interval. My recommendations are at 5000 miles and more often if you track your car. Filters can be changed at 2500 miles.

Like I mentioned in my previous thread, I offer to my customers that ability to LOCK the intake tappets. There is very little performance LOSS, I can spool the turbochargers quicker and give you back the torque loss in spades. By locking the tappets we reduce the strain on the hydraulic lifters and reduce the failure rates.
Kevin,

Why do you think we are seeing these issues on the tt motors (996, 997), but not on the GT3 cars?

I realize there are a lot less GT3s on the road, and the GT3 has the one piece IMS, but I don't understand why the GT3 motor seems to have less issues...
Old 03-05-2011 | 04:18 PM
  #42  
PorscheDoc's Avatar
PorscheDoc
Addict
Rennlist Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,058
Likes: 11
From: Under Your Car
Default

Originally Posted by joelesmith
Doc,
I have it up on stands and I am getting ready to drop the engine. Before I was kinda scared to disassemble my motor. now i'm terrified. Maybe if the Porsche reps see an engine break at 24,000 miles they will take one off the assembly line and send it to Oregon, lol. Please keep us updated on your progress, I know it is going to help me out.
How did the Variocam look? I had the same metal particles on the actuator valve, and was thinking they came from the actuator, on the cam.
Joel
The cam actuators on the passenger is shot. Quite a bit of play in it. The driver's side didn't seem as bad. When rotating the crank (everything assembled), the intake cam on the passenger side would lag for a second, then snap foward.
Old 03-05-2011 | 04:19 PM
  #43  
PorscheDoc's Avatar
PorscheDoc
Addict
Rennlist Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,058
Likes: 11
From: Under Your Car
Default

Originally Posted by MechanicalEng
So why does this kind of failure happen? could it be human error at assembly? (at Stutgart) maybe they missed that ring on the camshaft? besides changing the oil with 5-40 every other day what else can one do to avoid these failures??
The ring was definitely there when the motor was assembled as evidence in the groove in the forward cam housing. From the guys I have talked with, this ring issue is starting to become quite common.
Old 03-09-2011 | 08:10 PM
  #44  
joelesmith's Avatar
joelesmith
Thread Starter
Advanced
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: Hillsboro, Oregon
Default

spent the whole weekend getting the car ready to pull (drop) the engine. I've got just about everything disconnected and drained. any new information on your project. Have you decided to repair the cam actuator or buy a new engine. You said you have end play in the crank, how much is ok and how much is to much?
Joel
Old 03-09-2011 | 10:05 PM
  #45  
PorscheDoc's Avatar
PorscheDoc
Addict
Rennlist Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,058
Likes: 11
From: Under Your Car
Default

Originally Posted by joelesmith
spent the whole weekend getting the car ready to pull (drop) the engine. I've got just about everything disconnected and drained. any new information on your project. Have you decided to repair the cam actuator or buy a new engine. You said you have end play in the crank, how much is ok and how much is to much?
Joel
We are at a standstill at the moment. The cost to put this motor back together with new actuators/cam housings/cam/tappets has hit a point where I don't think it is money well spent considering the miles on the motor. We could go in and rebuild the entire engine, but what else will we find deeper? I have sourced used engines as well as given the option of a factory motor, but I think it is a little over whelming for the owner (quite understandably). Right now I just finished up boxing the parts up and the owner is going to pick them up to get them out from underneath me while he decides what he wants to do. He bought the car new for 112k in late 2001 IIRC, and is a little disappointed at 90k miles to be staring at a $20k bill. We told him to go home, and make a list of what the car means to him, all the pros/cons to help him make a decision. Right now, I think there may be more important things in his life which is understandable. I'll keep you updated as I know more.



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 06:21 AM.