akfalar

Just curious what the magic variables are for car longevity. I read about a guy in here with 200k still on the original clutch.

Kevin

I think that it was km.. Must have drove like a grandpa with crap fuel with knock retard pulling power.

No way would that be the norm.

Change the oil at 3500 miles. Have you changed your gearbox and diff oil yet?

ltc

I believe the owner you are referring to is RL member 'T2'.

IIRC, he had 243,000 miles on his 03 X50 last time I checked.
No, it was not driven like a grandpa with poor fuel, as a matter of fact he tracks it frequently and drives it year round in New England.

IIRC, his Cayenne Turbo has over 200,000 miles as well.

Hoosier_Daddy

I agree about the clutch, however, the engine is considered to have a 200,000 mile service life according to a Porsche factory engineer at PCA Tech Tactics about 8 years ago. (Obviously, this excludes racing)

Macster

I believe using "crap" fuel and relying upon the knock sensors and Ecu to retard timing to avoid detonation would result in shortening the engine's life, not lengthening it.

By retarding the timing detonation is avoided to be sure but this timing retardation raises the exhaust gas temperature which exposes all combustion chamber surfaces and all items downstream from the chamber to higher than normal exhaust gas temperatures. This is not condusive to engine longevity.

High mileage driving a car as well made as a modern Porsche does not require extraordinary effort to achieve. My 02 Boxster has traveled over 235K miles and is on its original engine and clutch.

While I don't track the car I don't drive it like a grandpa either. I have always changed the oil every 5K miles and have kept the other service fluids/filters up to date. I have had the tranny/diff (5-speed) fluid changed several times (at various Porsche dealers and using the recommended Porsche tranmission fluid) and have had the coolant changed several times as well again using various Porsche dealers and using the recommended anti-freeze.

I expect my 03 Turbo, should I keep it as long as I have the Boxster, and by giving it the same care/servicing as I have given my Boxster, to obtain comparable miles and with hopefully no need to perform major repairs.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Macster

Regular servicing, oil/filter, air filter, and vital fluids. I like and have followed and continue to follow 5K mile oil/filter service schedules but some recommend shorter intervals and some go a bit longer.

Give the car reasonable usage: Avoid whenever possible short trips, lots of idling, or on the other side prolonged periods of time at maximum rpms and engine loads.

Let the engine warm up a bit before driving off -- I let my Turbo idle until engine rpms drop to near normal hot idle speed - -and let the engine cool some before shutting it off. Cool the engine by letting the engine idle. Some owners recommend minutes of idling but this is overkill, unless one leaves the race track with no cool down lap beforehand.

Stay on top of any issues. One area that sees an otherwise nice car rendered not so nice is failing to keep the coolant reasonably fresh. What can happen is a cooling system leak develops and this leak then can allow the engine to overheat. The leak means the system loses the ability to maintain pressure and it is the pressure that raises the coolant fluid's boiling point. If the coolant has insufficient presure this allows the hot coolant to flash into steam at the hottest areas of the engine and form pockets of superheated steam. These pockets of steam then block coolant flow and extreme localized overheating occurs with almost always a leaking head gasket, warped head, cracked head, or worse, the result.

To put any of the above right represents no small amount of money and depending upon the car's age, miles and the owner's frame of mind, an otherwise perfectly fine car may not be deemed worth repairing.

Oh, and drive the car as often as you can. Frequently used cars well maintained are generally better cars than cars that sit around for long periods unused.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Kevin

Macster, knock retard for you is more likely since you fill with 91 Craptane. These cars were let out of the factory tuned for 93 octane. My point is>>it is happening more than you know. And yes I have seen first hand.

There is no comparison from this engine to the Boxster or 996NA engine. At 4 times the cost to repair, increasing the oil change (adding) interval per year increases the lifespan. With most oil tests the common theme at the end of the report is >> If you increase the oil change frequency it benefits your engine bearings and wear components vs buying that high dollar specialty boutique oil.

These engines are VERY tough on oil. Oil shear and heat breakdown exists at a higher rate vs a NA engine. I have datalogs with turbine housing temps over 1500F. Oil being the sole source of cooling the turbochargers.. You don't have those extremes in the NA engines. For those that do NOT cool down your engines you place a higher load on your engine oil.

Macster

Can't help that only 91 octane (except in rare cases) is the only gas available here in CA. CA state/local governments have a real hatred of cars and gasoline and one result is 91 octane gas. And we pay more for it too.

91 octane Shell gas is up to $3.259 to $3.359 (depending upon which station one patronizes). When I drive back east to the mid-west gas prices drop sometimes quite a bit the further I get from CA. Octane ratings go up too.

I try to avoid low engine speeds and high engine loads to try to reduce the frequency the Ecu has to retard spark. I note though that the Turbo engine's compression ratio is 9.4:1 (vs. 11.3:1 for my Boxster) and I can often drive in such a manner that the Turbo engine sees none to little boost and only for brief periods.

Thus even though we in CA are saddled with 91 octane gasoline at least for the Turbo I don't think it suffers too much because of it.

As for oil change frequency, I have been thinking about having the oil changed more often. A few times I've let it go to 5K miles but a few other times I've had it changed sooner. For instance, currently the oil in the engine now has just over 4K miles on it and I'm going to have the oil changed this week. One reason is I might have to travel half way across the country in the car on short notice and want to have the oil fresh and the other is I think maybe 4K miles is better than 5K miles, for the reasons you give.

The times I've changed the oil after 5K miles the oil didn't look bad, still having a bit of transparency and dark amber color to it as it drained from the engine crankcase or the oil tank. But fewer miles between oil changes all other things being equal I think is better and a few extra dollars in oil expense over the years won't bankrupt me.

A Turbo engine replacement wouldn't bankrupt me either but I'd have to cut way back on some things, like eating.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Bryce

If 5,000 is the mechanic's recommendation, why (beyond the obvious incentive to sell another car) does Porsche's owner's manual recommend 10k or a once a year for those traveling under 10k per year? It wouldn't be hard to change mine out every 6 months at 5k. I suppose it's cheap insurance. But I've also read that synthetics improve with some miles between changes (3000 would be silly iirc, and viscosity minimized around 7500 miles).

Kevin, as Christmas rolls around I'll do my oil change. You straight up recommend M1 5W50 no matter what, right? I'll buy some off the web if that's a Porsche-approved and mechanic recommended oil.

LVDell

I change the engine oil three times a year (end of spring, summer, and fall).
I change the gearbox and front diff oil 1-2x a year (end of spring and fall).

Is it overkill? Possibly, but it's relatively cheap insurance.

Macster

Service schedules are based on many things, not all of them strictly good mechanical/engineering practices.

One factor that plays a large role (and is getting larger) is as vehicle prices go up and up and up automakers seek to lower this pain by extending the service schedules.

Not many car buyers are happy about laying down a big wad of money for one of these cars and then being told "oh by the way you need to bring the car in after 1K or 2K miles for oil/filter servicing and then every 5K miles or one year thereafter".

I don't know about USA car mags but the long term test car writeups in the UK car mags almost always favorably comment on cars that require no early servicing and in fact no servicing at all while in the long term test fleet. I've read of more than one new car covering 15K or more miles with no oil/filter servicing. In one case though towards the end of the test the engine's oil consumption went way up.

By way of contrast, in another case the automaker did recommend an early oil/filter service and this was unfavorably mentioned in the article.

The trouble is that as some (a few initially) automakers started touting extended service schedules the others had to follow suite to stay "competitive". The early adapters of this maintenance lie touted their cars as being better designed to go longer between services.

While synthetic oils have improved some, driving conditions have deteriorated, and the oils have a tougher job. More idling. Shorter trips. Less long distance driving. Many areas of the USA see very high ambient temperatures for long periods of time, and others see very cold temps and most areas see high humidity too, and many many areas have very high levels of particulate matter (dust/dirt) in the air. I've driven through parts of the mid-west and southwest where the dust is so thick you can taste it.

Also, modern engines run hotter, ingest their own exhaust or have valve timing/lift controls that ensure the incoming charge is partially polluted with the previous charge's exhaust gases to lower emissions.

Mike Miller who writes for one of the BMW mags rails against BMW and its apparent "global war on maintenance". There doesn't appear to be anyone of Mike's stature in the Porsche world following suite.

It also distresses him when engine problems appear and owners are told the problem lies with the way cars are used here in the USA. He feels that automakers ought to design engines or at least specify proper service intervals for where the cars are used, not for some hypothetical area where there is no traffic, no high temps, the air is clean, cool and dry, and so on.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Kevin

We can have a little "Show and Tell" For those that want to guess what this is and the condition and miles.

Bryce

Thanks for your time, Mac. Appreciate your thoughts.

Kevin

No bidders..

DaveK

At my last service, I asked my mechanics whether I should change my oil more often than the 12k recommended in the UK service schedule. He said no - but I'm beginning to think I should ignore him and switch to 6k oil changes.