Todds911

Hello,

Not trying to stoke the eternal debate of which transmission is better or more appropriate and don't really need anyone replying with "who would buy a tip? Buy a 6spd" etc, so here goes it:

My last 911 was a 99 C2 Aero 6spd. Before buying it, I really considered a Tip given my left knee issues, but since it was only a weekend car (no traffic) and I knew I would eventually sell it (resale purposes), I went with the 6spd.

So now I am bored with the normally aspirated 911's, but am once again considering a Tip, but in a Turbo. Although the Tip was an expensive option, I believe the Tip demands a discount in the market. Not sure if the PDK has exacerbated the discount, maybe no correlation, but here are my questions on the Tip:

1. Do the Tips normally start in 2nd gear from a standstill? I think I heard that they start in 2nd gear, unless you really punch it or use the steering wheel controls? If this is true, does anyone have an issue with this, or is there so much power in the Turbos that it makes for more comfortable driving under normal conditions?

2. My research with the MK1 Tip Transmissions was that they were fairly indestructible. Some had been replaced I learned, but the Tip was never raised as a significant reliability concern. So you did not have any manual clutch replacement issues over time, obviously, and only had to change the fluid as maintenance. Is this the same with the Turbo Tip's - reliable?

3. Any issues with when and how they shift in Auto mode? Is the shifting in Auto mode responsive (is downshifting quicker than trying to manually shift into a lower gear with a 6spd)?

4. Does the car really "learn" your manner of driving and adjust accordingly?

5. Anyone know how many tenths of a second you lose with the Tip 0-60?

Thanks!
Todd

nick49

I'd be interested in the same replies from TT tip owners.

I'm considering a TT with tip for my next purchase. I just sold my 996 n/a Cab 6 speed that I owned and loved for several years.

One thing that has me wondering now, was taking wife's Boxster tip for an aggressive drive in the canyons yesterday. Boy I sure missed shifting using the clutch, but I'm not used to the manual thumb shift buttons.

It would be interesting to hear comments from someone who has had and driven aggressively, or tracked both.

BostonDuce

1: yes start from second. First spools up quick if you manually select it. Software available to override 2nd gear start.

2: Tip manufactured by MB-even has the three point star on the case. Same reliability as a S-Class tranny.

3: In auto, it wants to get into top gear ASAP. A down shift requires a stomp, or a push of the button. It responds faster than similar automatics, but not as fast as a PDK. A MT shift may beat a tip, but it won't be as smooth. MT shifts won't beat a PDK shift.

4: Yes it learns your driving style, either holding lower gears longer for aggressive pedal mashing, or jumping up to top gear for 'sunday drivers'.

5: Can't remember exactly but the tip was at a disadvantage to the manual, both in 0-60 and top speed due to the loss from the torque converter and the slight weight penalty.

As far as a 'discount' in the resale market, maybe in these forums where there is a high concentration ultra performance-oriented drivers, but the NADA book still carries a premium for a Tip car.

BD

jimq

I have a TIP 964 and if I was to get another TT I would more than likely get a TIP. 1st gear in the TT is worthless. You hit red line in about 1 second. Traffic has gotten so bad around here that I enjoy the TIP car more than the TT for weekday driving in traffic even tho the TT is more comfortable.

Macster

When I was looking into buying a Turbo I did a bit of research.

My info doesn't show a 2 speed 1st gear. It shows a 2 speed reverse gear and one source reported this is to avoid causing the engine to go on boost when backing out of a parking space with the engine cold.

Now it could be the shift map has the Tip start out in 2nd under some conditions. A friend's older Mercedes diesel's transmssion did this. I do not recall why, if I ever knew why.

For the Turbo, I could guess it might be for the same reason there is a 2 speed reverse, to avoid subjecting the engne to the possibility of going on boost cold, or for improved gas mileage.

I've never driven a Tip Turbo but reviews by those that have report the Tip is a good fit to the Turbo's engine regardless of what gear it starts out in.

For you, the only way to know if this would be an issue for you is to drive a Tip equiped car. I don't think it would be an issue or we would have read posts by Tip owners posting a complaint and seeking a work-around.

The Tip tranmission is sourced from Mercedes and is used in cars with even more hp/torque than the Turbo. The transmission is probably as bullet proof as one could find.

Ideally when shopping for a used car one would like to find a car that has the Tip fluid changed and if not and if not too many miles to treat the Tip to a fliud/filter service as part of one's getting his new car on some kind of servicing schedule.

I would be leery of a high mileage Tip car with no Tip fluid/filter service.

The 6-speed Turbo goes 0 to 62mph (100kph) in 4.1 seconds. A Tip equipped car is a tenth or two of a second slower. Still faster than 98% of all cars on the road.

And I dare say the driver of manual equipped car would need several runs to get that 4.1 second time while the Tip car driver would be able to deliver the same 0 to 62mph times time after time after time. And God knows that the clutch and transmission would be like after the exercise while the Tip would be unfazed.

Furthermore, how often does one call upon his car to get it moving from a standstill to 60 mph in as short as time as possible? Not often unless one spends his days at the drag strip.

Imagine getting a 3300+lb car moving from standstill to 62mph in just over 4 seconds. Amazing.

Far and away my Turbo usage has me moving the car off from a stop to whatever the limit is and doing this time after time. Lesser cars with a faster shifting manual or an automatic can "take" my car off the line. I am careful with the clutch let out to avoid any more slippage than necessary to get the car moving smoothly away but this means the car doesn't always leap off the line ahead of every other car. Occasionally I'll hear a car next to mine with its engine racing/straining as my car and the other car pull away from the light and realize the other driver is "racing" my car. Oh well, I got beat by another Toyota/Honda/whatever.

However, I'm well aware that if I needed to, if I wanted to, I could catch nearly any car with it having a head start with just a quick depress of my right foot.

Lastly, all other things being equal a Tip transmission subjects the engine and drivetrain to less shock and wear and tear. Same goes for the driver. Working the clutch in traffic for some of us is a bit of pain, literally and figuratively.

Correction: Found 0 to 100kph (62mph) elapsed times for Turbo manual and Tip and manual is 4.2 seconds while Tip requires 4.8 seconds. This difference is obviously more than a tenth or two of a second.

Sincerely,

Macster.

WCE

I think that info might be a little flawed...
Tip starts out in second from a stop unless it's cold or you punch the throttle or the button!
Personally, I found the Tip on the clunky side and slow to shift, however the engine's amazing torque made up for these shortcomings.
From what I've read and my experience, they are very reliable, but when there's a problem you're probably going to spend $10-15k on a remanufactured unit.
My car would hit 60 (on my Escort Timer) in 4.5 second from idle, no brake torquing the motor.

Last930

I put about 2,000 miles on the track at Road America in my '02 Tip, and found that the trans worked very well for me. It was always in the correct gear, never hit the rev limiter or downshifted into the wrong gear, and held up fine. It enabled me to concentrate on the correct line and braking zones; helped with consistency on the track. I chased around a few 6 spd cars with equal drivers and there were places that I could pull them on the track, and places where they could pull me. About evenly matched in my opinion.

I agree with the comments regarding the 0-60 times. The stick might be quicker, but you would need to budget for clutch replacements whereas the tip will just keep plugging along.

I did hate the 2nd gear start though, and missed being involved with operating a stick, and thus have a manual trans in my current car. But the tip is a very good trans. Drive them both.

1AS

Re "tip adapting to driving style":
it does, but it adapts to the driving style you are in at the moment, not your average driving style of thel last hundred miles.
Example: Drive along like an ordinary person, and the tip shifts like an ordinary trans. Then floor the throttle, brake hard for a corner and keep the suspension loaded in the corner. Now, the tip downshifts when you need it to, holds gears to redline, and shifts reliably at redline, if left in automatic. It is hard to get consistent redline upshifts with the buttons. An average to good driver is faster on track with a tip. AS

Last930

I didn't realize how average a driver I was until I let an Indy car driver take me around R/A in my '02 Tip coupe a few years back. He had not driven a Tip car and so took it fairly easy (for him) - but he was ALOT faster !