DaveK

We've had an unusual amount of snow in the UK this year, and the turbo has performed admirably (on summer tyres) - but that's primarily on flat roads.

I had a first try at skiing yesterday, and enjoyed it - and I'm now considering booking a skiing holiday. But if I do, what I'd really like to do is drive there in the turbo.

It would be a pretty long trip - would be to mainland Europe. I could get snow tyres fitted to the turbo, but I think that might be a problem before I got closer to the snow so don't know if that's a realistic option - and I also wonder if they're really good enough to drive up a mountain. I assume the other option is snow chains - but am nervous of anything that might damage my wheels or car.

Anybody done something like this before and any suggestions?

Macster

Probably around 500 miles to the ski area and of course 500 miles back.

Unless Europe suffers from a heat wave tires should be ok.

Regardless, avoid high speed driving (tires are probably rated for 130mph if that much anyway) and aggressive cornering.

I do not know the road rules/regulations where you are going but check and if there's a chance chains (or cables) required under some conditions be sure to buy wheels and proper snow tires (none of that all season crap tires) that have clearance for chain/cables and of course buy a good set of chains/cables.

Also, before you leave, do a test fit of the chains/cables just to be sure they all fit and hook up right. Not unknown to open box of chains first time only to find one or all the wrong size, or one missing. Wrong time to find this out laying on your back in 3 feet of snow on side of mountain pass road with the wolves howling nearby...

Oh, pack something to put on ground to lay on while you install chains/cables.

Take lots of flares and reflective triangles. And several good/bright *water proof* flash lights. It will be dark when you have to stop to put on chains.

Be sure windshield washer tank full of fluid that will not freeze.

Sincerely,

Macster.

brad@tirerack.com

If you will be seeing mountain regions in the snow in that car, you need snow tires. Feel free to PM or call me and we can investigate your options. I can provide a quote/ship to Europe pretty reasonably.

DaveK

Thanks.

I think it's probably easier to buy tyres here than to ship from the US. I may even consider trying to pick up a second set of wheels - I'll make some phone calls.

nj911skr

Porsche only recommends tire chains with the 265 width rear tires on 10" rear rims. This is to provide clearance for the chains. See the Technical Data section of your owners manual for Tires, Rims, Tracks.

Owners manual goes on to say that tire chains should only be used on the rear wheels up to a maximum speed of 50 km/h with "Porsche authorized fine-link cross-type or edge chains." (I'm not promoting any particular type of chain - this is just what is says).

Kind regards

DaveK

Thanks. I've ruled out chains now I think - I asked on another (mostly UK) forum, and the advice there was that many people use their cars to go skiing with winter (not snow) tyres.

So that's currently my plan. Ideally I'd like a second set of wheels, but this time I will probably just swap the tyres - that alone is a big chunk of the cost of a holiday anyway! Then I'll keep an eye out for a set of bargain spare wheels in the future.

Macster

Well, to put it bluntly I think it borders on insanity to consider driving to a ski area in winter with just "winter" tires, I assume this means all season tires?

I drove (a Mustang GT) in the mid-west one winter on all season tires and there were some times the tires simply were not up to the task. And I was on fairly level ground. Even with over 100lbs of ballast in the trunk the car was crap on those tires.

I'd be darn sure you know the rules/regulations. For instance if the weather gets bad and you don't have proper snow tires, possibly chains/cables, you may be prohibited from driving until the roads are clear enough. Also, you may be subject to a fine, especially if your car becomes stuck and hinders traffic.

Or if the worst could happen and there's an accident and the adjuster upon inspecting your car if he finds the car fitted with the wrong tires for the type of conditions could deny any claim against your insurance. Or if you hit someone...

Saving a few bucks on the wrong tires could be the most expensive mistake you ever made.

Sincerely,

Macster.

DaveK

Winter tyres are not all season tyres. They are specifically for winter conditions (below 7 degrees). It's also not about saving money - I will have to buy winter tyres specifically for this trip. However - snow tyres are simply not possible. It would be a (minimum) of 500 miles for me to reach snow, which is likely to destroy snow tyres anyway. I've been told (by a number of people now) that winter tyres provide good grip on packed snow and reasonable grip on ice. Not as good as snow tyres - but perfectly useable.

I've also been told that European ski resorts keep their roads pretty clear with snow ploughs / grit soon after a snow fall.

I've had a good few weeks of driving in the snow on all season tyres here. While the car coped pretty well, I wouldn't even consider trying to drive up a mountain on them!

DesignerGenes

Well, Mustangs aren't all-wheel drive. Frankly, I wouldn't mount chains either -- too much danger of doing damage to very expensive brakes, suspension, etc. Your Snow or Winter tires shoud be rated for temperatures below 45F. U.S. "M+S" or all-weather tires have the agressive, big-block treads, but not the proper rubber compound for temperatures approaching freezing. The guy who said "check on requirements to chain up" is right. There may be places along your route(s) where you cannot proceed without chains.

Personally, I'd rent a car properly equipped including a set of four chains in the trunk for use as needed. You're not going to have much fun in a 911 Turbo on snow, and the worry will only make that worse.

nj911skr

The issue that you will run into is that winter tires in the stock summer sizes do not exist. (I believe Pirelli used to make a set but they are no longer available)

Attached is a link for winter tires that will work with the 8" front and 11" rear wheels. They should do well on the trip across Europe as they are all at least H speed rated.

Here you go

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=65996

Macster

Proper snow tires do not have big open tread blocks, but very tiny sipes running at right angles to the tire's direction of rotation. (The tires can have rather large grooves in the tread running around the circumference of the tire to help expel water or snowy slush.)

The big large open tread blocks are more for mud (or slush) than snow.

With a real snow tire, and its tiny tread sipes, the tread face deforms and these tiny sipe edges get exposed and grip into the snow. In some cases the tread rubber is permeated with short lengths of fibrous material which act as tiny "studs" to grip on icy surfaces.

Many cars with just RWD and proper snow tires do just fine in snowy driving conditions.

Generally what happens is not the going but the turning or slowing or stopping where the tires let you down.

AWD is not much better than just RWD (or FWD) without proper tires.

In fact, what AWD can do is give one a false sense of security which evaporates very quicklly as the car sails off the side of the road cause it fails to make a turn on a snowy or icy roadway or the car slides through a stop at an intersection cause the tires fail to grip well enough to bring the car to a halt.

Renting a car with the right tires and driving this car to the ski area is preferrable to driving one's Porsche with the wrong tires to the ski area, unless one is seeking possibly very expensive thrills.

Sincerely,

Macster.

tscales

I bought my 996TT specifically because I moved to Iowa and wanted a 12-month car. I installed Pirelli Snow tires (true winter tires) on a separate set of wheels. I drive it every single day.

I realize you won't buy from them, but got to tirerack.com and let it recommend wheels/tires. This will give you all the info you want.

I have driven through ice and snow and it is the safest car I have ever driven. My wife's E320 4matic is close, but not as stable.

Go for it.

DaveK

Actually, I was considering buying from tirerack - although it's not very local they have given me a decent price. Unfortunately, I've been told I can't get winter tyres in stock sizes, so have to buy new (narrower) wheels too.

However - it now seems likely I'll delay the purchase / trip for a year. I specifically wanted the tyres for a trip skiing and I'm probably going to delay that until I'm a little more competent on the local indoor slopes. That also gives me more time to try to sort out a used set of wheels locally.

Haven't completely decided yet - but it is quite tempting to forget about skiing and just take the car over to Europe anyway. Rome might be nice in March.....

DesignerGenes

So I decided to go to tirerack.com, which is where I buy my tires, and look at what they suggested for my car. They list only three sets for my 8 X 18 and 11 x 18 wheels:
Bridgestone Blizzack LM-60, with large "independent" tread blocks and sipes [H speed rated only]
Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D, with what I'd call larger tread blocks, and sipes [V rated]
Pirelli Winter 240 Snow Sport, with "intermediate" tread blocks, and sipes ["O.E. Approved"] [V rated]
Tirerack recommends only tires with the "mountain/snowflake symbol" on them for "European conditions," which all of these tires have.

All three sets are 22540R18 and 26535R18

tscales

I have the Blizzaks on my E55 and the Pirelli on the 996. Both are excellent. The 996 will climb trees