So you ask how's the Turbo repair coming? You know the....
07-25-2009 | 09:07 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,032
Likes: 256
From: Centerton, AR
So you ask how's the Turbo repair coming? You know the....
repair needed after smacking mule deer outside of Ely NV July 3rd?
It ain't coming. Been over 3 weeks now and not one bit of repair done.
Allstate's latest hold up is refusing to pay shop's charge to use of Celette Bench to check car's body alignment when metal shelf passenger fender bolts to gets straightened. This check needed to ensure body panel hardpoints in correct position so body panels match up with each other and existing panels.
If body panel fit not right of course body panel gaps not even, weather stripping may not seal properly, odd wind noises, whistles can arise from the gap or panel height differences.
Besides of course one of the ways to know you got a good accident repair is if you can't see that any repair was done. Misaligned body panels, uneven gaps, a sure sign of accident repair and a sure sign of a bad repair. Car's value drops, a lot.
I fail to see how my insurance provider can refuse to pay for a repair step that if skipped can result in a sub-standard repair and thus *increase* or *add to* my loss. Perhaps someone here can enlighten me how my insurance carrier can do this?
Anyhow, get a load of Allstate's insane reasoning: Allstate says Porsche now recognizes two alignment benches: Celette and Car Bench (IIRC the name). The latter doesn't require any rental of alignment jigs/fixtures. Comes with them I guess based on talk with body shop manager. However, cost of Car Bench is $100K so not many shops have bought into them. As long as Celette still a good bench, no reason to.
But Allstate says it won't pay for time on bench and rental of jigs/fixtures cause it is like paying extra for the hammer and pliers and other shop tools.
Says 1st shop I had car taken too was not going to charge for Celette bench time or jig/fixture rental. That's a lie based on what the shop told me. Shop told me Allstate refused to authorize payment for Celette Bench time and jig/fixture rental. I got mad and yanked car from this 1st shop not because mad at shop per se but at Allstate and its power over this shop cause shop was a Pro Shop. The 2nd shop I had car taken too is not a Pro Shop but is qualified to repair modern Porsches and comes highly recommended.
So car in limbo until I can get this sorted out maybe Monday. All parts ordered and most have arrived. Still in the air is a used headlight. Body shop says it found one out of state but seller will not ship until it receives payment. Body shop says it does not do business this way and is not going to pay first. Thus a new headlight will have to be sourced unless Allstate believes having two unnecessary and the body shop seeking to pad the repair bill.
You know I feel like I've been a victim of consumer fraud. Before I bought car to find out what insurance cost would be I submitted this car's VIN to my agent with a quote request. Quote was acceptable and I bought car on a Sunday. The next day I was at agent's office early to after she inspected car to add it to my car insurance policy. I paid premimum then and there by check.
I left believing I had obtained insurance coverage for my car that should the unfortunate happen and I had to file a claim to have car repaired Allstate would see it repaired as good as humanly possible. If I would give in the car's repair would be sub-standard and greatly diminish the value of the car and diminish my enjoyment of the vehicle from every time walking up to it seeing the ill-fitting body panel gaps. Any additional wind noise from the gaps would only add insult to injury.
However, while I kept my end of the bargain, the contract between Allstate and me Allstate has not kept its end.
This has been so far the worst imaginable experience I could well could have ever imagined.
Here's a pic showing the metal shelf that is next to trunk to which the passenger fender bolts to. You can see how it is bent down and needs to be brought up to just the right height so new fender bolts up straight and even and true.
Crash passenger side 1;
Sincerely,
Macster.
It ain't coming. Been over 3 weeks now and not one bit of repair done.
Allstate's latest hold up is refusing to pay shop's charge to use of Celette Bench to check car's body alignment when metal shelf passenger fender bolts to gets straightened. This check needed to ensure body panel hardpoints in correct position so body panels match up with each other and existing panels.
If body panel fit not right of course body panel gaps not even, weather stripping may not seal properly, odd wind noises, whistles can arise from the gap or panel height differences.
Besides of course one of the ways to know you got a good accident repair is if you can't see that any repair was done. Misaligned body panels, uneven gaps, a sure sign of accident repair and a sure sign of a bad repair. Car's value drops, a lot.
I fail to see how my insurance provider can refuse to pay for a repair step that if skipped can result in a sub-standard repair and thus *increase* or *add to* my loss. Perhaps someone here can enlighten me how my insurance carrier can do this?
Anyhow, get a load of Allstate's insane reasoning: Allstate says Porsche now recognizes two alignment benches: Celette and Car Bench (IIRC the name). The latter doesn't require any rental of alignment jigs/fixtures. Comes with them I guess based on talk with body shop manager. However, cost of Car Bench is $100K so not many shops have bought into them. As long as Celette still a good bench, no reason to.
But Allstate says it won't pay for time on bench and rental of jigs/fixtures cause it is like paying extra for the hammer and pliers and other shop tools.
Says 1st shop I had car taken too was not going to charge for Celette bench time or jig/fixture rental. That's a lie based on what the shop told me. Shop told me Allstate refused to authorize payment for Celette Bench time and jig/fixture rental. I got mad and yanked car from this 1st shop not because mad at shop per se but at Allstate and its power over this shop cause shop was a Pro Shop. The 2nd shop I had car taken too is not a Pro Shop but is qualified to repair modern Porsches and comes highly recommended.
So car in limbo until I can get this sorted out maybe Monday. All parts ordered and most have arrived. Still in the air is a used headlight. Body shop says it found one out of state but seller will not ship until it receives payment. Body shop says it does not do business this way and is not going to pay first. Thus a new headlight will have to be sourced unless Allstate believes having two unnecessary and the body shop seeking to pad the repair bill.
You know I feel like I've been a victim of consumer fraud. Before I bought car to find out what insurance cost would be I submitted this car's VIN to my agent with a quote request. Quote was acceptable and I bought car on a Sunday. The next day I was at agent's office early to after she inspected car to add it to my car insurance policy. I paid premimum then and there by check.
I left believing I had obtained insurance coverage for my car that should the unfortunate happen and I had to file a claim to have car repaired Allstate would see it repaired as good as humanly possible. If I would give in the car's repair would be sub-standard and greatly diminish the value of the car and diminish my enjoyment of the vehicle from every time walking up to it seeing the ill-fitting body panel gaps. Any additional wind noise from the gaps would only add insult to injury.
However, while I kept my end of the bargain, the contract between Allstate and me Allstate has not kept its end.
This has been so far the worst imaginable experience I could well could have ever imagined.
Here's a pic showing the metal shelf that is next to trunk to which the passenger fender bolts to. You can see how it is bent down and needs to be brought up to just the right height so new fender bolts up straight and even and true.
Crash passenger side 1;
Sincerely,
Macster.
07-26-2009 | 01:45 AM
#3
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,429
Likes: 91
From: Georgetown, TX
I had a battle with Allstate in 1975! My father, who was in the hospital for cardio surgery at the time, was suddenly dropped by Allstate for "claim frequency". It seems that over some period of time, my father's car was hit by several other drivers. In every instance he was not at fault and Allstate wasn't asked to pay a dime. However, every time he reported an incident to Allstate, it was considered a claim. So his "claim frequency was outside our normal parameters". Allstate is about the worst insurance company going. They're the "Good Hands" people alright. One hand on your wallet and the other on your gonads!
I suspect that someone has had a good experience with them, but I've never heard of it.
I fully understand your aggravation.
Cheers,
I suspect that someone has had a good experience with them, but I've never heard of it.
I fully understand your aggravation.
Cheers,
07-26-2009 | 02:38 AM
#4
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,032
Likes: 256
From: Centerton, AR
07-26-2009 | 02:47 AM
#5
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,032
Likes: 256
From: Centerton, AR
I had a battle with Allstate in 1975! My father, who was in the hospital for cardio surgery at the time, was suddenly dropped by Allstate for "claim frequency". It seems that over some period of time, my father's car was hit by several other drivers. In every instance he was not at fault and Allstate wasn't asked to pay a dime. However, every time he reported an incident to Allstate, it was considered a claim. So his "claim frequency was outside our normal parameters". Allstate is about the worst insurance company going. They're the "Good Hands" people alright. One hand on your wallet and the other on your gonads!
I suspect that someone has had a good experience with them, but I've never heard of it.
I fully understand your aggravation.
Cheers,
I suspect that someone has had a good experience with them, but I've never heard of it.
I fully understand your aggravation.
Cheers,
Then May 1st my Cayman S hit. Just 25 days after I bought it. Again I reported it to my insurance company and started a claim. This time there was a question of limits -- the other driver was underinsured -- and I thought I might have to rely upon my uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage to take car of the car. The other insurance company tried to get me to file a claim with my company but I resisted and through some work on my part (and luck) other company gave me a nice chunk of cash for the Cayman and with salvage rights to Cayman S (declared a total loss by other insurance company) which I turned into cash through an auction sale of car which resulted in me receiving more money than expected, I came out ahead on the Cayman S claim.
But in neither case did I follow through with the claim to my insurance company.
Still, someone somewhere in Allstate probably remembers....
Sincerely,
Macster.
07-26-2009 | 05:14 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 905
Likes: 2
From: N. California
Get as much as you can in writing. Even if they refuse, YOU should follow up with a letter "just clarifying our earlier discussion". Send every letter to them certified return receipt.
The objective- along with gettting the car fixed perfectly- is to build a complete documentary chain of events, discussions and facts, which can then back up "your story" if it ever comes down to it.
For example, your statement of "this is a lie based on what the shop told me" is almost entirely hearsay- what THEY SAID is a lie based on what the OTHER SAID... You need a written statement from the first shop, and then a contemporaneous note from you disputing their verbal assertion.
Also, keep a dated and timed log of all events and conversations- a bound book would be good. names, etc.
You certainly want to avoid spending money with lawyers, and avoid court- the way to do it is to have a very solid case in terms of letters, documents and pictures so that they realize it will be a non-winner. I can't overemphasize this enough- the more over the top, formal and **** you are NOW the lower the likelihood they will fight you later.
Finally, you talk about 'value' being part of your loss. You need to be aware that since you are relying on your insurance to compensate you for your loss, your contract will likely have specific language on what that loss can include- and many policies will now specifically exclude intangibles such as 'diminished value'.
Good luck
A
The objective- along with gettting the car fixed perfectly- is to build a complete documentary chain of events, discussions and facts, which can then back up "your story" if it ever comes down to it.
For example, your statement of "this is a lie based on what the shop told me" is almost entirely hearsay- what THEY SAID is a lie based on what the OTHER SAID... You need a written statement from the first shop, and then a contemporaneous note from you disputing their verbal assertion.
Also, keep a dated and timed log of all events and conversations- a bound book would be good. names, etc.
You certainly want to avoid spending money with lawyers, and avoid court- the way to do it is to have a very solid case in terms of letters, documents and pictures so that they realize it will be a non-winner. I can't overemphasize this enough- the more over the top, formal and **** you are NOW the lower the likelihood they will fight you later.
Finally, you talk about 'value' being part of your loss. You need to be aware that since you are relying on your insurance to compensate you for your loss, your contract will likely have specific language on what that loss can include- and many policies will now specifically exclude intangibles such as 'diminished value'.
Good luck
A
07-26-2009 | 09:16 PM
#7
Racer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 426
Likes: 16
From: Barrington, IL
I have used independent auto appraisers in the past to help me get cars fixed properly.
The appraiser can help pushback on the insurance company, check to ensure repairs are made properly, and develop the reporting needed to facilitate diminshed value claims.
I believe I paid a couple hundred dolalrs for these services.
The appraiser can help pushback on the insurance company, check to ensure repairs are made properly, and develop the reporting needed to facilitate diminshed value claims.
I believe I paid a couple hundred dolalrs for these services.
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07-26-2009 | 09:34 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,032
Likes: 256
From: Centerton, AR
I have used independent auto appraisers in the past to help me get cars fixed properly.
The appraiser can help pushback on the insurance company, check to ensure repairs are made properly, and develop the reporting needed to facilitate diminshed value claims.
I believe I paid a couple hundred dolalrs for these services.
The appraiser can help pushback on the insurance company, check to ensure repairs are made properly, and develop the reporting needed to facilitate diminshed value claims.
I believe I paid a couple hundred dolalrs for these services.
The insurance company is just stalling. The cost of the bench time and jig/fixture rental is peanuts compared to the cost of the total repair. A few hundred dollars compared to over $15K.
The several body shop managers I've spoken with recently confirm that this goes on all the time. It happens I guess because enough car owners give in or don't know their rights.
Sincerely,
Macster.
03-21-2012 | 08:46 PM
#9
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 82
Likes: 27
From: Los Angeles, Ca
Repairing Porsches on Jigs AND getting allstate to pay for it
This is my VERY post to a forum, EVER. I was so moved by what I was reading, I had to chime in.
First - what makes me qualified to say what I'm about to say? I am an ASE Estimator, ASE MASTER Technician, factory trained in collision repair for structural and non-structural by several manufacturers (BMW, Mercedes, VW, Audi, Nissan/Infiniti, GM AND PORSCHE!). I am an I-CAR instructor and I actually teach I-CAR classes in the curriculum for Porsche, Audi, VW, and several others. I have been working at Collision Consultants Auto Body since 1984. We are the shop of choice for the local Porsche dealership, and are in training now to complete our certification as a manufacturer certified shop. I have been working with Carbench jigs for 10 years. I am also an Allstate "Pro Shop" (they now call it a Helping Hands Network Shop) in State Farm "Select Service."
Now - let's address why the insurance doesn't want to pay. Short answer is, because they don't have to pay anything more than what is industry acceptable. And if the industry is accepting sub standard repairs, then you're in trouble. I have see some insurance policies written to provide repairs per manufacturers recommendations. I guess if these things really matter to you, READ YOUR POLICY. or... find a shop that will do it and not charge you.
While we're at it, let's talk about exactly what the manufacturer recommends. Porsche says Celette or Carbench is acceptable. However, "universal jigs" are not acceptable. So if you took it to a Celette shop, they would have to rent jigs (unless they own the set specific to your car, which is VERY rare a shop owns jigs). If you took it to a Carbench shop, they are not supposed to use universal jigs at all. They might have to rent the dedicated jigs OR they might (as in my case) own the "mini-jigs" which are Porsche approved, but not nearly as un-affordable as full jigs. Here's a couple of quick sources for this information:
http://prolinesystems.net/files/car_bench_jigs.pdf
http://beepdf.com/doc/197182/summary...approvals.html
http://www.rsfinishing.com/downloads...-Statement.pdf
So is Allstate wrong? no. Is the shop you took it too excessive? no. Bottomline is, if you buy a standard policy, expect a standard repair. God forbid when our clients come in with non-standard policies. We do have clients who have "private line" insurance that do pay for jigs and do pay our full rates. Guess what, the customer pays more for that policy and deserves the extra benefits of it.
Insurance policies, collision repair shops and steaks - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!
Before I leave you, here's a couple of sneaky work arounds I use...
If you go through another person's insurance, the policy restrictions do not apply. They will pay for full jigs and rates, as long as the shop has a good relationship with the insurer. This is why it's important to pick a shop that is just as experienced and prepared for the insurance as they are for the car. I have never had Allstate nor State Farm deny me on anything I needed to do on a claimants car. Nor have I had a problem with any other major insurance company (Mercury, Farmers, 21st, Nationwide, Travelers, Progressive, even Infinity). There are a couple of (unnamed) companies we needed the customer to pay the difference, and then pursue their own claims, but it was never much. Another option, is we can sometimes just absorb the cost for the customer based on various reasons. Any shop that feels like they are to good to absorb $250 on a $20k repair is nuts. Lastly, if it was referred by the dealership, and they are the type of customer who have bought several cars, the dealership might subsidize a couple hundred.
PHEW!
Did I leave anything out? If so hit me up on twitter: @CollisionBody or facebook.com/CollisionBody
First - what makes me qualified to say what I'm about to say? I am an ASE Estimator, ASE MASTER Technician, factory trained in collision repair for structural and non-structural by several manufacturers (BMW, Mercedes, VW, Audi, Nissan/Infiniti, GM AND PORSCHE!). I am an I-CAR instructor and I actually teach I-CAR classes in the curriculum for Porsche, Audi, VW, and several others. I have been working at Collision Consultants Auto Body since 1984. We are the shop of choice for the local Porsche dealership, and are in training now to complete our certification as a manufacturer certified shop. I have been working with Carbench jigs for 10 years. I am also an Allstate "Pro Shop" (they now call it a Helping Hands Network Shop) in State Farm "Select Service."
Now - let's address why the insurance doesn't want to pay. Short answer is, because they don't have to pay anything more than what is industry acceptable. And if the industry is accepting sub standard repairs, then you're in trouble. I have see some insurance policies written to provide repairs per manufacturers recommendations. I guess if these things really matter to you, READ YOUR POLICY. or... find a shop that will do it and not charge you.
While we're at it, let's talk about exactly what the manufacturer recommends. Porsche says Celette or Carbench is acceptable. However, "universal jigs" are not acceptable. So if you took it to a Celette shop, they would have to rent jigs (unless they own the set specific to your car, which is VERY rare a shop owns jigs). If you took it to a Carbench shop, they are not supposed to use universal jigs at all. They might have to rent the dedicated jigs OR they might (as in my case) own the "mini-jigs" which are Porsche approved, but not nearly as un-affordable as full jigs. Here's a couple of quick sources for this information:
http://prolinesystems.net/files/car_bench_jigs.pdf
http://beepdf.com/doc/197182/summary...approvals.html
http://www.rsfinishing.com/downloads...-Statement.pdf
So is Allstate wrong? no. Is the shop you took it too excessive? no. Bottomline is, if you buy a standard policy, expect a standard repair. God forbid when our clients come in with non-standard policies. We do have clients who have "private line" insurance that do pay for jigs and do pay our full rates. Guess what, the customer pays more for that policy and deserves the extra benefits of it.
Insurance policies, collision repair shops and steaks - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!
Before I leave you, here's a couple of sneaky work arounds I use...
If you go through another person's insurance, the policy restrictions do not apply. They will pay for full jigs and rates, as long as the shop has a good relationship with the insurer. This is why it's important to pick a shop that is just as experienced and prepared for the insurance as they are for the car. I have never had Allstate nor State Farm deny me on anything I needed to do on a claimants car. Nor have I had a problem with any other major insurance company (Mercury, Farmers, 21st, Nationwide, Travelers, Progressive, even Infinity). There are a couple of (unnamed) companies we needed the customer to pay the difference, and then pursue their own claims, but it was never much. Another option, is we can sometimes just absorb the cost for the customer based on various reasons. Any shop that feels like they are to good to absorb $250 on a $20k repair is nuts. Lastly, if it was referred by the dealership, and they are the type of customer who have bought several cars, the dealership might subsidize a couple hundred.
PHEW!
Did I leave anything out? If so hit me up on twitter: @CollisionBody or facebook.com/CollisionBody
03-21-2012 | 09:36 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 950
Likes: 352
Allstate sucks. I had a single at fault accident and they're trying to almost triple my monthly premium in this renewal period. I'll be switching coverages ASAP.
Last edited by DrainsWalletsFast; 03-22-2012 at 01:00 AM.
03-21-2012 | 09:49 PM
#11
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,255
Likes: 5
From: Bastrop By God Texas
Have your attorney start throwing out the term bad faith. Insurance companies really don't like that term. Especially coming from a lawyer. It has cost them lots of money in court.
I've been with State Farm for over 30 years and have guaranteed insurability. I've had two auto claims with them during that time. Both no-fault. One on an LX470, and one on an S80 T6. Both repairs in the $15K range. I have to say they did everything right by me. They cost a little more, but I've never had a problem with them paying to have it done right.
I've been with State Farm for over 30 years and have guaranteed insurability. I've had two auto claims with them during that time. Both no-fault. One on an LX470, and one on an S80 T6. Both repairs in the $15K range. I have to say they did everything right by me. They cost a little more, but I've never had a problem with them paying to have it done right.
03-21-2012 | 11:42 PM
#12
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,032
Likes: 256
From: Centerton, AR
This is my VERY post to a forum, EVER. I was so moved by what I was reading, I had to chime in.
First - what makes me qualified to say what I'm about to say? I am an ASE Estimator, ASE MASTER Technician, factory trained in collision repair for structural and non-structural by several manufacturers (BMW, Mercedes, VW, Audi, Nissan/Infiniti, GM AND PORSCHE!). I am an I-CAR instructor and I actually teach I-CAR classes in the curriculum for Porsche, Audi, VW, and several others. I have been working at Collision Consultants Auto Body since 1984. We are the shop of choice for the local Porsche dealership, and are in training now to complete our certification as a manufacturer certified shop. I have been working with Carbench jigs for 10 years. I am also an Allstate "Pro Shop" (they now call it a Helping Hands Network Shop) in State Farm "Select Service."
Now - let's address why the insurance doesn't want to pay. Short answer is, because they don't have to pay anything more than what is industry acceptable. And if the industry is accepting sub standard repairs, then you're in trouble. I have see some insurance policies written to provide repairs per manufacturers recommendations. I guess if these things really matter to you, READ YOUR POLICY. or... find a shop that will do it and not charge you.
While we're at it, let's talk about exactly what the manufacturer recommends. Porsche says Celette or Carbench is acceptable. However, "universal jigs" are not acceptable. So if you took it to a Celette shop, they would have to rent jigs (unless they own the set specific to your car, which is VERY rare a shop owns jigs). If you took it to a Carbench shop, they are not supposed to use universal jigs at all. They might have to rent the dedicated jigs OR they might (as in my case) own the "mini-jigs" which are Porsche approved, but not nearly as un-affordable as full jigs. Here's a couple of quick sources for this information:
http://prolinesystems.net/files/car_bench_jigs.pdf
http://beepdf.com/doc/197182/summary...approvals.html
http://www.rsfinishing.com/downloads...-Statement.pdf
So is Allstate wrong? no. Is the shop you took it too excessive? no. Bottomline is, if you buy a standard policy, expect a standard repair. God forbid when our clients come in with non-standard policies. We do have clients who have "private line" insurance that do pay for jigs and do pay our full rates. Guess what, the customer pays more for that policy and deserves the extra benefits of it.
Insurance policies, collision repair shops and steaks - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!
Before I leave you, here's a couple of sneaky work arounds I use...
If you go through another person's insurance, the policy restrictions do not apply. They will pay for full jigs and rates, as long as the shop has a good relationship with the insurer. This is why it's important to pick a shop that is just as experienced and prepared for the insurance as they are for the car. I have never had Allstate nor State Farm deny me on anything I needed to do on a claimants car. Nor have I had a problem with any other major insurance company (Mercury, Farmers, 21st, Nationwide, Travelers, Progressive, even Infinity). There are a couple of (unnamed) companies we needed the customer to pay the difference, and then pursue their own claims, but it was never much. Another option, is we can sometimes just absorb the cost for the customer based on various reasons. Any shop that feels like they are to good to absorb $250 on a $20k repair is nuts. Lastly, if it was referred by the dealership, and they are the type of customer who have bought several cars, the dealership might subsidize a couple hundred.
PHEW!
Did I leave anything out? If so hit me up on twitter: @CollisionBody or facebook.com/CollisionBody
First - what makes me qualified to say what I'm about to say? I am an ASE Estimator, ASE MASTER Technician, factory trained in collision repair for structural and non-structural by several manufacturers (BMW, Mercedes, VW, Audi, Nissan/Infiniti, GM AND PORSCHE!). I am an I-CAR instructor and I actually teach I-CAR classes in the curriculum for Porsche, Audi, VW, and several others. I have been working at Collision Consultants Auto Body since 1984. We are the shop of choice for the local Porsche dealership, and are in training now to complete our certification as a manufacturer certified shop. I have been working with Carbench jigs for 10 years. I am also an Allstate "Pro Shop" (they now call it a Helping Hands Network Shop) in State Farm "Select Service."
Now - let's address why the insurance doesn't want to pay. Short answer is, because they don't have to pay anything more than what is industry acceptable. And if the industry is accepting sub standard repairs, then you're in trouble. I have see some insurance policies written to provide repairs per manufacturers recommendations. I guess if these things really matter to you, READ YOUR POLICY. or... find a shop that will do it and not charge you.
While we're at it, let's talk about exactly what the manufacturer recommends. Porsche says Celette or Carbench is acceptable. However, "universal jigs" are not acceptable. So if you took it to a Celette shop, they would have to rent jigs (unless they own the set specific to your car, which is VERY rare a shop owns jigs). If you took it to a Carbench shop, they are not supposed to use universal jigs at all. They might have to rent the dedicated jigs OR they might (as in my case) own the "mini-jigs" which are Porsche approved, but not nearly as un-affordable as full jigs. Here's a couple of quick sources for this information:
http://prolinesystems.net/files/car_bench_jigs.pdf
http://beepdf.com/doc/197182/summary...approvals.html
http://www.rsfinishing.com/downloads...-Statement.pdf
So is Allstate wrong? no. Is the shop you took it too excessive? no. Bottomline is, if you buy a standard policy, expect a standard repair. God forbid when our clients come in with non-standard policies. We do have clients who have "private line" insurance that do pay for jigs and do pay our full rates. Guess what, the customer pays more for that policy and deserves the extra benefits of it.
Insurance policies, collision repair shops and steaks - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!
Before I leave you, here's a couple of sneaky work arounds I use...
If you go through another person's insurance, the policy restrictions do not apply. They will pay for full jigs and rates, as long as the shop has a good relationship with the insurer. This is why it's important to pick a shop that is just as experienced and prepared for the insurance as they are for the car. I have never had Allstate nor State Farm deny me on anything I needed to do on a claimants car. Nor have I had a problem with any other major insurance company (Mercury, Farmers, 21st, Nationwide, Travelers, Progressive, even Infinity). There are a couple of (unnamed) companies we needed the customer to pay the difference, and then pursue their own claims, but it was never much. Another option, is we can sometimes just absorb the cost for the customer based on various reasons. Any shop that feels like they are to good to absorb $250 on a $20k repair is nuts. Lastly, if it was referred by the dealership, and they are the type of customer who have bought several cars, the dealership might subsidize a couple hundred.
PHEW!
Did I leave anything out? If so hit me up on twitter: @CollisionBody or facebook.com/CollisionBody
Short reply is the insurance company charged me Turbo rates and but when it came time that I had to file a claim, it wanted to pay Festiva repair rates.
No way.
The shop I took the car to had a Celette bench and rented the necessary jigs/fixtures (the jigs/fixtures are rented from Celette and it is Celette that ensures they are kept up to spec) and the fender shelf straightened. The rest of the tub/chassis and other hardpoints were found to be unaffected by the deer impact.
The car was repaired to my satisfaction, and to Porsche's too I might add -- I had the car inspected by a Porsche tech and the CPO warranty remained in effect, which proved to be a godsend because I used it more than once -- and save for a better paint finish -- the replaced/repainted factory new panels lack the factory orange peel finish -- no one can tell the car smacked a mule deer and it took around $25K to repair the car. Since that time I have put over 75K miles on the car and it runs as good today, looks as good today, as it did the moment before it hit the deer.
Sincerely,
Macster.
03-22-2012 | 03:56 PM
#14
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Centerton, AR
I can't recall the exact order in which these things occurred, but: coolant cap (leaking); noisy idler roller bearing; passenger side radiator fan motor shaft snapped and the hub/fan assembly hit and dented (but did not hole) the radiator.
Regarding the motor shaft failure: When the tech told me of this because this was the corner that was involved in the deer collsion I suspected maybe the problem had something to do with the repairs to the car.
So, I asked the tech about this type of failure. He said he'd never seen a shaft snap. When I heard that I thought oh oh, and made it a point of asking the tech to inspect the parts to ensure they were all factory and installed correctly.
Now I had some confidence he wouldn't find anything amiss, this was the tech that I had inspect the car (even removing the front bumper cover and the passenger side headlight) after its repairs to verify the repairs were 'factory' and factory parts were used.
Now when I visited the car in the repair shop I was shown factory parts and assured they were going to be used, but I wanted to be sure.
The tech carefully inspected all the parts and found they were all factory. So I had no qualms about letting the CPO cover that problem. (Had the parts been subpar or the installation at fault the repair shop that was responsible for the car's collision repair would have been responsible for the repairs. A car repaired after an accident (in CA at least) comes with a lifetime warranty on the repairs.)
What else? Oh, a transmission (6-speed) selector shaft seal was found leaking and the transmission replaced. (I might add this leak was spotted when I had the car in for an 'early' transmission fluid change at IIRC around 40K miles. I got the fluid changed... fresh fluid came in the new (remanufactured) transmission. Might add that the replacement transmission had a much better 1st to 2nd shift feel so bonus!)
The shifter broke and a new (997) shifter was installed.
Clutch accumulator and slave cylinder failed and were replaced.
All of the above -- except maybe the accum/slave cylinder; I'd have to consult the car's repair records on this repair -- occurred between the time I bought the car with around 10K miles on it and before the car had 50K miles. IOWs, all (or most) of the above would have been covered under the new car's warranty had the original owner driven the car more than on average 1666 miles per year.
Sincerely,
Macster.
