Modded TT vs New GT2
11-20-2007, 05:06 AM
#49
Burning Brakes
With all this GT2 versus 997TT versus 996TT versus GT3 versus GT3RS, etc. debate it’s now like the debate about motorbikes. It’s all in the rider/driver. Sure if you have lots of straights the higher BHP car will post better times – everyone has the ***** to floor the throttle on the straights. But what a satisfaction I get when I pass a 1000cc bike on my 600 on the outside. What now amazes me is that on my local former motto GP track 1000’s and 600’s both with top pilots are separated only by few seconds per lap and 1000’s have 50BHP more. With close to 500bhp on tap (our cars) it’s all about the driver skill. You could give me a GT2 and I am convinced Walter would whoop my **** in a NA996 and I know how to drive believe me… or not in this case. :-)
11-20-2007, 03:15 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
With all this GT2 versus 997TT versus 996TT versus GT3 versus GT3RS, etc. debate it’s now like the debate about motorbikes. It’s all in the rider/driver. Sure if you have lots of straights the higher BHP car will post better times – everyone has the ***** to floor the throttle on the straights. But what a satisfaction I get when I pass a 1000cc bike on my 600 on the outside. What now amazes me is that on my local former motto GP track 1000’s and 600’s both with top pilots are separated only by few seconds per lap and 1000’s have 50BHP more. With close to 500bhp on tap (our cars) it’s all about the driver skill. You could give me a GT2 and I am convinced Walter would whoop my **** in a NA996 and I know how to drive believe me… or not in this case. :-)
Simon, totally true. But to compare apples to apples, for the sake of the discussions on this forum car v car, lets assume equal drivers. That way we really are talking about car performance not driving performance.
11-21-2007, 06:47 AM
#52
Burning Brakes
In such case GT2 wins hands down. It’s an all assault weapon from Porsche and it’s the quickest stock - road car (if you can call it road car) Porsche has build to date. 997GT2 has posted quicker time on the ring than the Carrera GT! With Walter at helm it would demolish 996’s or 997’s and I don’t think there is much out there that would kill it short of race cars.
11-21-2007, 12:34 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
In such case GT2 wins hands down. It’s an all assault weapon from Porsche and it’s the quickest stock - road car (if you can call it road car) Porsche has build to date. 997GT2 has posted quicker time on the ring than the Carrera GT! With Walter at helm it would demolish 996’s or 997’s and I don’t think there is much out there that would kill it short of race cars.
11-21-2007, 12:47 PM
#54
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I believe the CGT time was achieved on inferior tires (as compared to the 997 GT2). If this is true, then the CGT...given equality in tires...would probably be significantly faster than the 997 GT2 on the NBR.
11-21-2007, 02:22 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
Dock,
Were those Corsas? If we take that position, then don't all the cars need to be retested on identical rubber? Are those tires even available in standard CGT sizes?
I think that "apples to apples" implies we take the car as delivered or tested, as otherwise any modern upgrade could be added. I'm certain you will have a logical and irrefutable answer. AS
Were those Corsas? If we take that position, then don't all the cars need to be retested on identical rubber? Are those tires even available in standard CGT sizes?
I think that "apples to apples" implies we take the car as delivered or tested, as otherwise any modern upgrade could be added. I'm certain you will have a logical and irrefutable answer. AS
11-21-2007, 03:06 PM
#56
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Dock,
Were those Corsas? If we take that position, then don't all the cars need to be retested on identical rubber?...I think that "apples to apples" implies we take the car as delivered or tested, as otherwise any modern upgrade could be added. I'm certain you will have a logical and irrefutable answer. AS
Were those Corsas? If we take that position, then don't all the cars need to be retested on identical rubber?...I think that "apples to apples" implies we take the car as delivered or tested, as otherwise any modern upgrade could be added. I'm certain you will have a logical and irrefutable answer. AS
And yes, of course you can evaluate cars based strictly on how they are delivered from the factory. But since tires are such an important factor in determining performance, it is illustrative to eliminate (if possible) their contribution to the total performance number, allowing a more accurate assessment of the suspension, chassis, and power differences between the two cars. It's very much like having the same person drive each car...it just eliminates one of the variables and allows a more accurate picture.
11-22-2007, 01:36 AM
#59
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
As for apples to apples..........car from the factory..........modded car.........etc
but to keep the all car comparison I would like to see the comparison with same driver and SAME tires.
I dont count tires per say as an upgrade (even though they are) in comparing cars. the tires should be equal then the car and suspension etc will be the determining factors.
It would be ridiculous to compare one car with street tires even good ones compared to a car on R compound tires even if they are not Cups.
again my 2 cents............
11-22-2007, 10:24 AM
#60
Rennlist Member
Tom,
I fully agree. But, it is highly unlikely that you can get Walter to take a ZO6 or Viper around the ring to compare to another Porsche, or that you can get him to retest each car once the best new tire is available in the correct size. So, trying to get the perfect test results in having no tests.
On paper, the CGT should be much faster, as horsepower, weight, weight distribution, and aerodynamics should be in its favor. The current disparity could be tires, though I'm not sure that the current best tires are even avialable for the CGT, it could be set up (the CGT is delivered loose), or it could be that the tire sizes and wing size won't really allow optimal utilization of the horsepower.
Until somebody actually changes just the tires and cracks the record, it's just speculation.
But, with turbochaged cars, updates in programming can have a significant impact on straightline speed, which is important on courses with long straights. So next year, maybe the 2009 997 GT2 gets a modern reflash for another 50 hp. Then do we say, "Now the 2008 GT2 is fastest again" even if that flash wasn't available when the initial record was set, then broken?
My personal opinion is that th CGT in "as-delivered" street trim is a very challenging car for track use, and this question will likely never be answered. AS
I fully agree. But, it is highly unlikely that you can get Walter to take a ZO6 or Viper around the ring to compare to another Porsche, or that you can get him to retest each car once the best new tire is available in the correct size. So, trying to get the perfect test results in having no tests.
On paper, the CGT should be much faster, as horsepower, weight, weight distribution, and aerodynamics should be in its favor. The current disparity could be tires, though I'm not sure that the current best tires are even avialable for the CGT, it could be set up (the CGT is delivered loose), or it could be that the tire sizes and wing size won't really allow optimal utilization of the horsepower.
Until somebody actually changes just the tires and cracks the record, it's just speculation.
But, with turbochaged cars, updates in programming can have a significant impact on straightline speed, which is important on courses with long straights. So next year, maybe the 2009 997 GT2 gets a modern reflash for another 50 hp. Then do we say, "Now the 2008 GT2 is fastest again" even if that flash wasn't available when the initial record was set, then broken?
My personal opinion is that th CGT in "as-delivered" street trim is a very challenging car for track use, and this question will likely never be answered. AS