joeTurbo

Relative newcomer (one month - 2000 miles).
2004 TT, Giac chip, diverter valves.

Car shifts great when I have lots of time, and I take my time. Short shifter is very solid, and precise.
However, if I am in a hurry, and I try to shift quickly, especially 1-2, it seems to take forever for the synchronizers to allow the shift to second. Given the ridiculously big step between first and second gear ratios, by the time I am in second, all the boost is gone, RPM is down under 4000, and the car takes a while to build back up. Shifting from 2nd to third, I find it difficult to reliably get third - sometime it hangs up between the gates.

Have any of you more experienced Porsche leadfoots developed special techniques to avoid this, or to keep the boost up between shifts?

Anyone know why Porsche, which is usually very meticulous about engineering, has such a big step between first and second? (I can see that with the lower torque base models, they might want to have an aggressive first gear to get the car going quickly, but with the turbo, it seems to me that first gear is way too low, and the gap between first and secon way too wide, but I assume they have a good reason for this. Anyone know what it is?

Thanks

wross996tt

Part of your problem is, of course, the TT was not factory set-up for the HP you now have. I do agree that 1st is way too short. I spend very little time in first and mostly boost 2-5.

99firehawk

hecne why automatic turbo cars are faster then stick cars
when you let off the gas to shift the thottle closes the boosted air slams into the throttle plate and to prevent it from charging back trhough the turbos it is dumped by the diverter valves.
IF you learn to shift without lifiting from the gas you wont loose boost but you need to shift smoooth and fast to not bang the limiter

BobbyC

I may not be the typical example but I'm always smooth and gentle with the shifter...firm but smooth, never rush, on street or track.

1-2 upshift ~ 5.5k rpm
2-3 upshift ~ 4.5k-5.5k
3-4 upshift ~ 4.5k -5.5k
4-5 upshift ~ 4.5k-5.5k

In my car the power band is between 3.5 - 5.5k and I find the foregoing ranges optimal. As said, I may not be your typical Turbo driver. Cheers!

Dock

It's all about how your shifter is set up, and your technique.

Similar to Bobby C, I initiate the 1-2 shift in the 5000s...I shoot for ~5800. I apply just a bit of back pressure on the shifter right before I shift, and I then "lead with the clutch" (in terms of throttle-clutch timing) followed almost instantaneously by higher pressure on the shifter as I feel the shifter start to move (the pre-load on the shifter allows me to feel when the clutch has released)...and I lead the 2nd gear gate engagement (by a RCH) with clutch release. It's a pretty rapid 1-2 shift. (I have a B&M shifter).

Mr Powell

I've only had a half day or so of seat time in the car due to the awesome weather we are having in Houston, and this is a whole different car! I haven't had a 6-speed car in about 3 years for a daily driver, and my race car had a Powerglide. So my only 6-speed driving was a MTI 427 C5 Vette so I was use to all the torque down low and the different gearing.

What I've noticed though is basically first gear I'm going to have to go on my gut feeling on it, but this is something I'm use to, the Vette does it really bad in first gear. Second->Fourth it is going to be better to shift like Bobby is saying because if I take it into about 6k I notice nothing really, just the power slowly falling off.

Hopefully when the weather stays clear I can drive this thing more and get a feel for it. It is my first Turbo and AWD car, so it's all new to me.

1AS

I think the set up is due to the way Europeans drive. From what I've experienced, it is most common to short shift first as people drive in traffic. Then second is usually long and flexible for moving thru typical streets. I think it is mostly Americans who focus on standing start acceleration, and I don't think Porsche engineers care much about that. Just my hypothesis, but I do think it works best to drive cars the way they were designed. Our cars have a few other ideosyncracies as well.AS

joeTurbo

Thanks for the suggestion.
Tried it today. Works pretty well for me in 2-3 and above, I still need to work on my 1-2. Since second gear drops the rpm to less than 60% of rpm in first, I still find that if I shift at anything less than 6000 rpm the car bogs as the RPM is under 3500 and off boost after shifting. But I'll keep working on my hand/foot co-ordination.
Thanks again

tkerrmd

very important to make the 2 to 3 shift "almost" a two move shift. cleanly move and center to neutral and then up to third. Very important NOT to try to "speed shift"

Dock

Agreed.

I find that all straight fore-aft shifts (1-2, 3-4, 5-6) can be done VERY rapidly in my car. The next fastest shifts (and only just barely slower than the fore-aft shifts) are in the opposite direction. The fastest shift across neutral (left to right...2-3, 4-5) is the 4-5 shift, which I can basically do just about as fast as a 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 shift.

manalex

Joe:

I too have trouble going from 2nd to 3rd (4th to 5th as well) and have caught the gate. When you're racing, you want to make the shifts are quick and deliberate. Often the adrenaline is pumping and you simply miss just because of the high excitiment in the environment. I've found that using the spring within the shifter can make things a bit easier. Hand position is also important. More experienced drivers seem to take this for granted becuase it's second nature to them.

When thinking of your upshift from 2nd to 3rd (or from 4th to 5th)-don't think of it as 1) up and out, 2) over, 3) up and in. If you do this in the "heat of the moment" you tend not to complete 2) and hit the gate during 3). Also, you are more prone to this if your hand is enveloping the gear shift becuase you are moving/directing the shifter rather than guiding it. You're also taking the internal spring out of the picture shifting this way.

I was told that you need to think of the upshift as one diagonal motion and this is where hand placement becomes more critical. While in 2nd (or 4th), place your hand between you and the shifter and push it into forth. The internal spring essentially completes step 2) for you, and you go from 2nd to 3rd almost as quickly as 1st to 2nd. This takes a bunch of practice but it seems to work for me. Learned it from an instructor during a DE.

I'm curious to see what others think,

Alex

GBG

I've been shifting at abot 4k all around; this thread makes me realize that I should hold for another 500-1000 rpm, so I'll give it a shot. Thanks

lennyspoolin

So you should shift a 911 turbo at about 5000 to 5500 rpm in every gear when racing? I recently got installed the stage 4 evo kite in my 2004 911 turbo cab and now im confused when the heck am i to shift?

ca993twin

The tricky part of this discussion is that every gear has a different "drop" ratio. So you need to rev the snot out of it in the lower gears to keep the revs from dropping to the bog point. In the higher gears (where the rev "drop" is smaller), take it to where your peak HP is generated and shift there.

WCE

My car always shifts perfectly and instantly, right at redline (at least the first 3 gears), no boost drop off or lag, even on the track.
Oops - sorry, it's a tip!