Hamann7

It doesn't seem like there has ever been a P-Car as coveted but contoversial like the GT2.

Was the 993 GT2 in Europe nearly this controversial or scary to drive?

Every time I look at a GT2, it makes me want one so badly. I think it is one of the best looking 911's ever produced. It's fast, it brakes like crazy... but then 25% of them have crashed already. Never has a car scared me and lured me in at the same time.

That's why I chose the GT3, hoping to get the essence of a GT2 in a much more managable package. Though it falls short in the looks departmet.

It seems like the Devil himself created this car. How did Porsche expect their customers to handle this thing? Is there something we're missing here?

HBdirtbag

does anyone really know the accuracy behind 25% of them being crashed? I think that is way to much. But you'd be suprised how many ferrari's and other exotics bite the dust. I don't think it's doomed, I just think to many people w/ to much money buy it not having a clue how to drive.

I bet there were alot more 930 turbos that bit the dust faster then the GT2's are.

ZAMIRZ

GT2 crashes are overrated, every time one of them eats **** we see it on the internet because it's an exotic. Also, where are you getting the % of GT2s crashed statistic? Porsche doesn't expect to sell this to it's normal customers, it is afterall the flagship and costs the most money (not to mention made in the smallest numbers, although the Carrera GT will take that honor when it comes out). For the select few who either know what they're doing or don't know what they're doing but have the money to make it seem like they do is what the GT2 is good for.

0396

soon2be993TT,

My belief is very similar to yours.

There seems to be a lot of people with too much
expendable $ and very limited knowledge on how to manage a 911 with that amount of hp- myself included.

I've been to the track and have driven 911's since the early 70's. When I get in mine,
I have to remind my self of the consequences
of a simple mistake.

My 2c

drjim

Not positive, but I believe the Carrera GT will be produced in numbers about 4 times what the GT-2 was/is. I doubt we will ever see a modern production car with these few numbers again. Wish I had the cajones to put one on ice for 30-40 years.

m42racer

I would spend another $ 12,000.00 and get a Shifter Kart to practice with. If you can control one of these, you will have no problems with the GT2.

mds

I spent $40k on a racing school and a year long arrive and drive racing series. Well worth the money, the experience, skills learned and confidence built. Plus you end up learning on a relatively cheap car to repair. Really, if your going to spend $100k+ on a car, you should learn how to drive first, to put it bluntly.

docjackson1

there is a certain psychology behind this. let me relate another subject to this. i have been flying airplanes for 15 years, and have almost 2000 hours flying all sorts of airplanes. if you think alot of wealthy people do themselves in with gt2's, wait to you see all the people with money who buy the farm flying planes they can afford but shouldn't fly-anyone hear of jfk, jr? there are 2 basic principals- 1)people will eventually get to a position of instability. they will sell their car/plane which they can use safely and buy a more expensive model, which will try to kill them. the peter principal. 2)people feel that by flirting with death, they have lived life to the fullest. nothing against haimann7, but you constantly hear his desire to get rid of all the safety features and fling his car through the canyons at 10 tenths, ***** to the walls. alot of people do the same thing with airplanes-the more chances you take, the better it is. professional pilots know that the less chances you take and the more skill that you show, the better you are. you may accept or reject this, but alot of people come to grief with these kind of cars because of their psychological shortcomings, which uncovers their technical shortcomings. a highly trained driver, like the previous writer, will have explored his/her limits and learned that the true mark of an expert is to know your limits and to stay within range of them.

Steve Lavigne

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by m42racer:
<strong>I would spend another $ 12,000.00 and get a Shifter Kart to practice with. If you can control one of these, you will have no problems with the GT2.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">If that is the case, perhaps someone should lend me their GT2 so I can show them how to drive. I raced gearbox karts for a couple of years and won some races on a local and regional level. I also did data acquisition and other duties for the 2002 Skusa S2 Promoto champion and the Skusa's 2002 motor builder of the year.

Anyone looking for an instructor?

Sun Ra

doc,

iwould argue that anything at 10/10's is high risk to yourself and others, whether it's a gt2, plane, straight heroin, etc.

i can't drive anything 10/10's safely or even at all. But a gt2 at 8-9/10's is alot of fun, and is clearly the highest performance car south of the mcClaren f1.

it's such a great car, i couldn't keep away.

Hamann, I would like to see your statistics; i know fixed wind has mentioned alot of crashes, but es la vida.

Deanger

Gentlemen,

I do not think the GT2 is the devil's beast, however, experience and a friendly mechanic led me to explore the nature of the animal. What is mentioned by people in passing is (like the GT3) the ability to go in and set-up the car to your driving likes. The stock set-up is road biased, with a great deal of understeer dialed in to help subdue the car's willingness to oversteer.

I found that once we took out some of this understeer, the car was much easier to predict -- note, I didn't say easier to control -- in fact, it wasn't as easy for me because candidly I am not a good enough driver in Turbocharged cars to manage their boost rates. But it was much easier to handle the car in an oversteer condition and to keep it from getting nervous.

Now, the one area I loved the GT2, but ultimately I think hurts it the most in everyday going super fast life, is the stiffness and rigidity of its basic suspension set-up. The occasions I had to take it fast on track or track-like conditions it was AWESOME! Blinding fast, with unreal feedback as to the road and what the car was doing. HOWEVER, on uneven pavement, the GT2 -- especially in stock "heavy understeer" set-up -- was simply not capably of going as fast as other cars because any one rut or bump could send you into a control issue. Now, this doesn't mean it was dangerous -- it wasn't -- nor did it keep me from going really quick on bad roads -- however, if you tried to take the car near its limits on such pavement, you were merely taking a gamble because there were situations where the car could be tossled in a way I wouldn't have been good enough to recover (and frankly I don't think many of you would either).

The GT2 was the most fun car to drive I've ever driven that wasn't meant purely for the track. It was also stunningly, breath-takingly quick. It was easy to spin the wheels in 3rd at 50mph. It was so fast from 0-100-0 that you might actually lose your lunch. And, in curves, it was... awesome in every way.

That being said, it is a car you really have to drive and explore to really understand. It is also a car that in some cases is not nearly as fast as people think. In a lot of ways, I think the GT3 should have come out first -- with the GT2 being sold only to those who thought the GT3 wasn't already enough of life on the edge.

A very special car.

Sun Ra

dean makes some very good points. it'll be interesting, dean, to see your comparison with the 959. when will you report?

steve n. reminded me of jeff zwart's experience on Pike's peak, where he found the 4wd of the TT didn't really give him the traction advantage i have previously pontificated upon for wet, uphill, gravelly roads [my common driving conditions]... in short, in power uphill zwart preferred the gt2. he's a good driver, but his findings made me reconsider the value - to me alone - of going back to a 4wd TT.

and drjim:

"Not positive, but I believe the Carrera GT will be produced in numbers about 4 times what the GT-2 was/is. I doubt we will ever see a modern production car with these few numbers again. Wish I had the cajones to put one on ice for 30-40 years."

Once the world looks upward again, gt2's will be sought after legends of performance, and only ? 250 '02 and 70 '03 ? [anyone have the US and worldwide #'s?] US units are available.

Deanger

Watt -- I belive the US numbers were 164 in 02, and 70 in 03.

Totall world wide run from 01-03 was supposed to be less than 350 cars.

I have a different recollection of Zwart's feelings -- though I haven't seen the article since then -- I remember his time was SLOWER in a GT2 than a TT. I also remember him saying he didn't feel like he had mastered the car yet.

Can't wait to see you blasting along in the speed yellow car -- but be careful!

PS -- I won't be driving the 959 in earnest 'til Fall.

PogueMoHone

I am mystified about all these perceptions of the 'beastiness" of the GT2.

If you've ever driven an RS America, the GT2 is really smooth.

Yes it's low to the ground, the only negative concession (but manageable) I will make.

Let me advance a theory about driving it (applicable to any Porsche):

Problems encountered are a result poor fundamental driving technique, magnified (in the GT2) because of the speed capability.

E.G. If your wheels are pointed in the wrong direction and you floor it, you will have less opportunity to correct it because trouble will arrive in nano seconds. True in any RWD Porsche but at a slower rate.

Is this the cars fault or the drivers?

The same logic can be applied to throttle induce oversteer etc.

I agree with the comparison to the 930, but the GT2 is much more civilized.

If I could only own 1 Porsche in my lifetime, it would be the GT2 for it's pure driving experience (and relative rareness).

Which brings up the issue of the Garrera GT, why so many? It increases the focus on the exclusivity of the GT2.

Those who can exercise patience in the GT2 will be well rewarded, and the precipitous will be punished.

PaulDixon

Colm, congratulations on the first sensible post here.