Tubi vs. Europipe
05-03-2003, 08:50 PM
#31
I agree an exhaust shootout would be a great idea. I think we all would see some suprises. I would bet all the manufacters that produce exhausts would be glad to supply an exhaust to use for the test. I am also sure that we could get a shop to let is use thier dyno for the test.
05-03-2003, 08:58 PM
#32
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If you need to pass smog, I can help out. We gains tons of power on our Supras without cats vs. with. I'll take a peek at Cobra06's piece. Please post links if they're not on the thread already.
05-03-2003, 09:00 PM
#33
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Thanks CJV
In defense of the high costs of exhaust, understand that Ruf is using a new Stock-type Boysen Exhaust body. If you were to go out and buy a new OEM TT exhaust then modify, you would understand that the cost isn't that outrageous. Europipe, using stainless tubing and basically hand-making each set, is expensive and labor intensive. We can keep costs down because we use a stock exhaust as a core and swap them out.
When it comes to purchasing an exhaust, I've found there are several groups encountered, one is interested in a performance increase, others want more volume. Volume is easy, $50 worth of stainless tubing and a set of cats can fit that order. To obtain performance and keep resonance to a minimum, is a difficult task. Look for a company that follows set standards of exhaust efficiency for turbocharged cars. There is a science to it, and it's just not welding a few lengths of improper diameter of pipe together and calling it a "Performance" exhaust.
In defense of the high costs of exhaust, understand that Ruf is using a new Stock-type Boysen Exhaust body. If you were to go out and buy a new OEM TT exhaust then modify, you would understand that the cost isn't that outrageous. Europipe, using stainless tubing and basically hand-making each set, is expensive and labor intensive. We can keep costs down because we use a stock exhaust as a core and swap them out.
When it comes to purchasing an exhaust, I've found there are several groups encountered, one is interested in a performance increase, others want more volume. Volume is easy, $50 worth of stainless tubing and a set of cats can fit that order. To obtain performance and keep resonance to a minimum, is a difficult task. Look for a company that follows set standards of exhaust efficiency for turbocharged cars. There is a science to it, and it's just not welding a few lengths of improper diameter of pipe together and calling it a "Performance" exhaust.
05-03-2003, 09:08 PM
#34
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Oh yeah, forgot to add that I feel sorry that you guys have to pay so much for exhausts. I've got three options for Titanium exhausts that have killler welding, smooth or no bends and dyno proven too. It's almost as rediculous as your chip prices 
. The benfits of owning a Porsche =/.
. The benfits of owning a Porsche =/.
05-03-2003, 09:12 PM
#35
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That's true about the resonating. It's hard to make an exhaust that doesn't drone or resonate at all at all RPM ranges though. I personally don't care as I don't daily drive my beast and I do care more about power characteristics.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by cobra06:
<strong>Thanks CJV
In defense of the high costs of exhaust, understand that Ruf is using a new Stock-type Boysen Exhaust body. If you were to go out and buy a new OEM TT exhaust then modify, you would understand that the cost isn't that outrageous. Europipe, using stainless tubing and basically hand-making each set, is expensive and labor intensive. We can keep costs down because we use a stock exhaust as a core and swap them out.
When it comes to purchasing an exhaust, I've found there are several groups encountered, one is interested in a performance increase, others want more volume. Volume is easy, $50 worth of stainless tubing and a set of cats can fit that order. To obtain performance and keep resonance to a minimum, is a difficult task. Look for a company that follows set standards of exhaust efficiency for turbocharged cars. There is a science to it, and it's just not welding a few lengths of improper diameter of pipe together and calling it a "Performance" exhaust.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by cobra06:
<strong>Thanks CJV
In defense of the high costs of exhaust, understand that Ruf is using a new Stock-type Boysen Exhaust body. If you were to go out and buy a new OEM TT exhaust then modify, you would understand that the cost isn't that outrageous. Europipe, using stainless tubing and basically hand-making each set, is expensive and labor intensive. We can keep costs down because we use a stock exhaust as a core and swap them out.
When it comes to purchasing an exhaust, I've found there are several groups encountered, one is interested in a performance increase, others want more volume. Volume is easy, $50 worth of stainless tubing and a set of cats can fit that order. To obtain performance and keep resonance to a minimum, is a difficult task. Look for a company that follows set standards of exhaust efficiency for turbocharged cars. There is a science to it, and it's just not welding a few lengths of improper diameter of pipe together and calling it a "Performance" exhaust.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">
05-04-2003, 06:39 PM
#38
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msindi,
Here's my 2 cents.
Go with where the proof is. Fabspeed exhaust on my car and Stephen's (PorschePhD) has proven to produce over 600HP and approx 660Torque (complimented with tuning of course)...Proof is in the dyno sheet, and you can call the dyno place yourself to get the results.
I would be interested in having PorschePhD test the Europipe on his car. I think having the exhaust swapped on his tuned 996TT will be the ultimate proof, and Stephen is 100percent trust worthy, as he will not post any results without a dyno sheet scanned and posted.
Having Rob King and their California Dyno place perform that test on Chad's car would not happen in a reasonable time, if at all, nor would a dyno be posted (why? ... Good Quesion) WHen I called their dyno place (to get results on my car), they would only release the info to Rob King....There's something fishy going on over at SanRafael, CA.
MsIndi, if you are interested in HP, then go with Fabspeed. As far as the best sounding - well that is subjective. I think the best exhaust I've ever heard is on my buddy's Z28 with borla. The best sounding exhaust on the 996TT, IMHO, its Fabspeed. Europipe is overrated and Fabspeed is underrated, IMO. We have yet to see proof on the Tubi.
Here's my 2 cents.
Go with where the proof is. Fabspeed exhaust on my car and Stephen's (PorschePhD) has proven to produce over 600HP and approx 660Torque (complimented with tuning of course)...Proof is in the dyno sheet, and you can call the dyno place yourself to get the results.
I would be interested in having PorschePhD test the Europipe on his car. I think having the exhaust swapped on his tuned 996TT will be the ultimate proof, and Stephen is 100percent trust worthy, as he will not post any results without a dyno sheet scanned and posted.
Having Rob King and their California Dyno place perform that test on Chad's car would not happen in a reasonable time, if at all, nor would a dyno be posted (why? ... Good Quesion) WHen I called their dyno place (to get results on my car), they would only release the info to Rob King....There's something fishy going on over at SanRafael, CA.
MsIndi, if you are interested in HP, then go with Fabspeed. As far as the best sounding - well that is subjective. I think the best exhaust I've ever heard is on my buddy's Z28 with borla. The best sounding exhaust on the 996TT, IMHO, its Fabspeed. Europipe is overrated and Fabspeed is underrated, IMO. We have yet to see proof on the Tubi.
05-04-2003, 08:05 PM
#41
Rennlist Lifetime Member
Holy Moley this thread blew up since I left last week. Yikes.....I will run the test if you guys want. I had planned on doing something, but this will speed things along. I would like to test several, Europipe, Fabspeed I/II, Cobra's exhaust, Rufs and GHLs new version. It will take me about a week to perform this many test. My only concern is I am not fronting the money to buy ANY exhaust. I can get the Fabspeed without issue, Joe I assure you will be game. I can get GHL also without issue. Lets get Ruf to kick in and Cobra to send one of the versions to test. If you want B&B that is fine although I have no real connection there. Anyone have a connection at Ruf?
The test will be conducted on like days, like temps (although with correction this will not matter) and will be written up based on ease of install, sound and gains with respect to posted dyno sheets. If other company would like their product put in this line up the price of admission is the muffler. The dyno runs cost me 55.00 a pop.
I think this is also something Excellence could benefit from. All test will be conducted on my car.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
The test will be conducted on like days, like temps (although with correction this will not matter) and will be written up based on ease of install, sound and gains with respect to posted dyno sheets. If other company would like their product put in this line up the price of admission is the muffler. The dyno runs cost me 55.00 a pop.
I think this is also something Excellence could benefit from. All test will be conducted on my car.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
05-04-2003, 08:29 PM
#43
Rennlist Lifetime Member
We can do that. I need an SPL meter if someone wants to loan me one. If you want me to measure back pressure with a specific meter let me know or have someone send it.
I do have the Stage IIEP still on my car. I wanted to dyno it first before I pulled it. No reason in creating any more work for myself. This will be enough all by itself.
Lastly many of you know I DO NOT like to get in the political mixing of products, but I do love test and had wanted to quietly do something. I am extremely consistent on my runs. I have a methodology to them, as many know. I will tune accordingly for each muffler. I can run any stage you want. I can run stock, III, IV and IVR which has not been tested so should not be considered for this run. Please do not ask for me to all the levels. I will be doing this for the next year if you guys want that. When this is all said and done please remember this will be based on numbers. Don't kill the messenger....I do not build exhaust systems.
I do have the Stage IIEP still on my car. I wanted to dyno it first before I pulled it. No reason in creating any more work for myself. This will be enough all by itself.
Lastly many of you know I DO NOT like to get in the political mixing of products, but I do love test and had wanted to quietly do something. I am extremely consistent on my runs. I have a methodology to them, as many know. I will tune accordingly for each muffler. I can run any stage you want. I can run stock, III, IV and IVR which has not been tested so should not be considered for this run. Please do not ask for me to all the levels. I will be doing this for the next year if you guys want that. When this is all said and done please remember this will be based on numbers. Don't kill the messenger....I do not build exhaust systems.
05-04-2003, 08:34 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
I vote for a "stock" comparison since it will benefit more people IMHO. I too plan on turbo and ECU upgrades in the future but I would have to guess that the majority of owners start their mods with an exhaust. Therefore a completely equal stock program across the lineup of exhaust systems seems appropriate.
SPL meters are available at Radio Shack. I think they are fairly cheap.
SPL meters are available at Radio Shack. I think they are fairly cheap.
05-04-2003, 08:39 PM
#45
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If loud is not an issue, which it clearly isn't as people are considering the Fabspeed as a good a sound, I'll send a version 7, that will rock your world.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/ver72l.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/ver72l.jpg" alt=" - " />