Ibanez

My conclusion after reading all this is that whether the customer had unreasonable demands or not when ordering the car, the dealer is at fault because they can't deliver what was ordered and are trying to place blame instead of resolving the situation. The dealer needs to give the deposit back immediately, not because they will lose in court, but because they make themselves look like a crappy dealership and no one wants to deal with that. I for one would never buy a car from this dealer because I know too many dealerships with this attitude which is "the customer doesn't come first". There are too many good dealerships out there to put up with one who treats customers this way.

emorgan

Principles above personalities. Seems Chambers has taken their eye off the ball and let a personality determine a business decision instead of operating, as I'm sure they do most of the time, on good business principles.

The deposit should be returned even if the guy might be a jerk. Give him his money, order him a new car at a discount, keep his business and when you drop the $ 8000.00 profit in the bank you made on his car be grateful for suckers like us. When I come across a p/c (problem customer) I simply smile and say to myself "I'm gonna take all his money"

1AS

If the issue is the Nav system, you're lucky you didn't get it. It's not very comprehensive in it's current format, and largely useless outside of the most population-dense areas. Had you gotten the car, you'd most-likely complain that the then-current system isn't very good. It's hard for me to accept that you'd be prefectly happy with the car if it just had a none-too-useful navigation system.Since the current list price must take into account the missing option, it seems like your deal is still the one you wanted. This deales seems to be saying they don't really care if they lose your business. Maybe somewhere along the line, you've used up all of your good will. Good luck. AS

Ed Newman

Honestly this whole thing is sickening to me!

Chambers needs to institute some basic policies that other P-car dealers have. For one, have the buyer sign off on the final confirmation sheet that you print out of the computer - I had to do this and though it was a great idea. If this had the PCM on it, its PCNA's fault and a different issue.

If porsh36 has an affiliation with the dealer, admit it, no one is here to play games.

If JesseJames does not want the car because it is missing a key (? non-retrofittable ?) item then too bad if you guys screwed up. Give him his deposit back and be happy he does not sue you for damages involving the trade, etc.

JesseJames should consult an attorney as most states have specific laws protecting the consumer, I believe NY and CA require a refund of deposit for ANY reason.. sucks to be the dealer.

Anyone from chambers listeing... P-cars are still a small world with a lot of repeat customers, don't let a few thousand dollars do damage that would cost 10 times to try to right. Your reputation is the hardest thing to rebuild in business.

Best of luck to all involved on resolving this issue.

jessejames

[quote]Originally posted by Ed Newman:
<strong>
If porsh36 has an affiliation with the dealer, admit it, no one is here to play games.</strong>

He is the son of Herb Chambers and the GM of Chambers Porsche, to the best of my knowledge.

<strong>... Give him his deposit back and be happy he does not sue you for damages involving the trade, etc....</strong>

Thank you I never thought about the trade. I cannot replace a certified 20,000 mile 97 993TT for the $72,500 they gave me. Interesting point.

<strong>...JesseJames should consult an attorney..</strong>

Yes I intend to, short of a check not being in my hands before the weekend. This certainly has gone on long enough.

<strong>...Anyone from chambers listeing...</strong>

Doesn't look that way.

<hr></blockquote>

Ibanez

****, I would have bought your TT for that price!

HBdirtbag

[quote]Originally posted by Ibanez:
<strong>****, I would have bought your TT for that price!</strong><hr></blockquote>

****, i would of bought his TT for that price!

that hot rod has been collecting dust and could of made great room for it.

jessejames

Here's a dealer we should all run to with our money. OMG..Customer be damned.

Liz-
I have attached a Rennlist forum thread where George admits certain elements of your email below to be untrue (taken from your letter):

"1. Our stance still is that you were aware the car did not have navigation."

I was only told it "might' not have it...Wherein does that make me to liable to lose a deposit when a car comes in - not as ordered?

Luxury tax has no bearing on my deposit whatsoever. I have no idea why you mention that.

George has stated to Corbett Head of PCNA that he will not return my deposit because he over traded my car at 72,500. What bearing does that have? I paid 94,500 for it 10 months earlier. It's been 7 months since that transaction. What bearing does his supposed mistake have on my deposit?

Please read George's statements in that thread. He is attacking me on an open public forum. Do you really need that?

I have your response and I have PCNA's response. They are not in agreement.

Would you care to comment before I go further?
Thanks again.

Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: The Herb Chambers Companies [mailto:hchambers@herbchambers.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:57 PM
To: Cc: gchambers@herbchambers.com
Subject: Response to Porsche deposit

Dear Mr.
George Chambers and I have had many discussions regarding your $1000
deposit. We have decided to retain the deposit for the following reasons:

1. Our stance still is that you were aware the car did not have navigation.

It's clear I was not aware

2. We believe the navigation issue came up only after the car was delivered
and you were unwilling to pay MSRP as you agreed to when you placed the order.

I am unwilling to pay MSRP on a mis-ordered vehicle..YES that is true

3. When purchasing a car in the state of Massachusetts, whatever
modifications you make to a vehicle which could impact the sale of said
vehicle would result in the surrender of any deposit left on that vehicle.
You were asked to leave only a $1,000.00 deposit on the 2003 Turbo which
was ordered to your specifications. In good faith, George Chambers only
took $1,000 while his standard deposit was and remains $5,000. Now the
dealership has been holding this car for better than a month because of
your unwillingness to stand by your commitment and are paying floor plan
interest on over $100,000.

This statement has what bearing? modification? huh?

4. Another concern of yours was the elimination of the luxury tax in
calendar year 2003.

I made a comment on luxury tax going away...so?

5. Michael Fernandes, your salesperson, also bore witness to these events
as they transpired and stands behind the dealership's position.

And you expect him to do otherwise. He's your employee and off the record agrees with me.

Best regards,

Liz Devlin
Executive Assistant to the President

John Murray

Good Luck.

Ibanez

Completely lame. What a ****ed up dealership (although I have met Mercedes dealers with the same stupid attitude towards customer service).

They are really ****ing themselves with Porsche buyers here. I live in California but often buy cars on the East Coast and have them shipped. This is a definitely a dealer that is going to be blacklisted by people like me.

Its clear that they are in the wrong. Their position just proves this point. If I were you, based on what I have read so far, I would sue them for the deposit plus damages plus your legal costs and not **** around anymore. When they lose (they will likely settle), I would forward the decision along with a cover letter to PCNA. But hey, that is just what I would do because dealers that act like this need to be put in their place.

Ibanez

As a follow up to my last post, it is also a shame that you have to go through all this because it is not what buying a Porsche should be all about. When you spend the dollars for a Turbo, you actually want to enjoy the purchasing experience instead of having to deal with ********.

Ed Newman

Don't you have a written order form or contract that shows the nav system or not? That seems to be the big issue here.

jessejames

[quote]Originally posted by Ed Newman:
<strong>Don't you have a written order form or contract that shows the nav system or not? That seems to be the big issue here.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks. That is my very point. I only have a written order form showing the PCM and a receipt for $1000.00 from Chambers. I signed NOTHING for a car that has no PCM. There is NO contract for a car that has no PCM. There is NOTHING in writing saying that the PCM was unavailable and I could CANCEL. I tried to negotiate for a misordered car. I had to institute a dialogue with them by phone on the 11th after hearing nothing for two weeks after asking for my deposit back.
I see you have an email listed. Do you want copies of those two items? I'd be happy to send them to you via email .jpg attachments.

JayT

Actually the dealer should have been well enough informed to know that PCM could be retro-fitted to 2003 and offered to assist. Sad to say most auto dealers are in the Toyota mold - "sell the car at any cost to the customer, there will always be another". We were lucky and had a great Porsche/M-B (my wife will only drive M-B's) dealer, but we had to move. She actually had me interview salespeople/dealers before we boutght her car. My Porsche was bought (and three later ones) were bought from a dealer 100 miles from where we live (metro DC) because of the sales.service. Dealers like this will never learn and until PCNA and PCA learn that dealers really do not buy the cars there will be dealers like this.

Good luck

944 Hooligan

hope you guys don't mind a 944 owner on your topic, but this post made me very angry/distressed.

now, i don't know either the buyer OR the seller, but there is a serious problem here. no one, and i mean no one, should ever be treated like james has when buying anything that costs over $100,000 easy, especially when buying from a marque like porsche. you can bet your hard earned dollar that if it was me in the same situation, it would have never escalated to this point, at the first sign of bull****, all hell would have broke loose and you would have one very displeased power buyer on your showroom floor making every potential customer in a 100 mile radius considering taking all of their business to a dealer that treated the customer with the proper respect. from the moment i showed serious interest in a new porsche it had better be "nice to hear from you again mr. buyer, we will do what we can within our powers to make your new porsche experience one of the most special times in your life."

hang the rat bastards. and with that said, i will kindly step down from my soapbox. <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

good luck.