caneaddict

<a href="http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&conten t_code=04447708" target="_blank">http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&conten t_code=04447708</a>

Anyone think Porsche will really be able to unload 1500 of these things at almost a half million a piece?

I just saw an article with Jay Kay (singer) who just received his black Enzo. Apparently he was offered one and rejected it. Later someone backed out and they called him to see if he wanted the spot. When he saw one in black he finally decided to go ahead and take it. Ferrari only made 399 of those and I think they came pretty close to tapping the demand. Where is Porsche going to find 1500 customers. They can't get rid of GT2's. Apparently a GT was recently tested and I think the numbers match pretty well to a GT2. This won't be a track champion out of the box (maybe with a few tweaks)! With all the technological advancements and high quality low weight materials they could only get the car down to 3050 pounds. I think that's a bit too fat!

How many people on this board have orders for one? My bet is that 24 months after launch they will be available for 30-40% off MSRP with very low miles.

docjackson1

cane, i agree with you. i would not be happy having to sell 1500 cars at $410,000+. there was a relatively good review of the car in this month's (june) car and driver. they are going to need all the multimillionaires to immediately need the highest performance car in the world. time will tell.

caneaddict

Doc, if a multimillionaire suddenly needs the highest performance car in the world, wouldn't he buy an Enzo or Veyron. I'm sure the GT will compete well with these two other cars, but everyone I speak to says given the choice they would hands down take a Enzo or if they want more luxury they usually indicate that given the financial ability the nod goes to the Veyron.

In any event, competing with Veyron, Murcielago, Enzo and SLR will make it impossible to sell 1500.

docjackson1

the major difference is that if they want a gt, it is probably no hassle to get one. to get the other cars, one might have to stand on his/her head, then, while upside down, cure aids/cancer/sars/premature ejaculation. the relative ease of locating and buying/servicing the gt would be the reason to get one over the other cars you mention.

labcars

I've got one on order with a build date of Jan. 4th. MSRP is $440K. I agreee with mot of what's been said. The basic question which needs to be answered is whether you're buying it as an investment or because you want the car. My view is I'll take the car, drive it for a week or two, flip it then buy another for some discount to MSRP and live happily thereafter. Then again, if it is all that it's craked up to be, I'll just keep it. any other thoughts?

KPV

Here is a link to the Porsche movie of the Carrera GT in case anyone is interested.

<a href="http://www3.us.porsche.com/english/usa/carreragt/modelinformation/experience/movies/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www3.us.porsche.com/english/usa/carreragt/modelinformation/experience/movies/default.htm</a>

caneaddict

Doc,
You definately have a point about the difficulty of getting an allocation for those other cars.
Labcars,
Congratulations on the GT. I can't wait to here first hand review of the car. I'm sure you will enjoy it immensely. However I wouldn't plan on buying it and flipping it after a few weeks (assuming you mean for a profit or no loss). I hope the demand is there to flip the car when it arrives but we'll see. Right now spec to order allocations are readily available at MSRP. Buying one a year down the road for a substantial discount to enjoy long term will probably be a very good idea (disclosure: that is what I am hoping to do once the price falls into the 200's).

Les Quam

Caneaddict, I agree with you that based on current market conditions Carrera Gt will be a hard sell. But I am buying a new one anyway,and I'll tell you why. 612 HP on a 3000 LB car with a final drive ratio of 4.44.In comparison a GT 2 has a 3.44 final drive ratio and 456 HP. Porsche claims 11.4 in the quarter mile the GT has been tested at 10.8 in the quarter. Either way I have a low 11 second street car with a phone,radio and nav. Not to mention air cond.The enzo for 200,000 more has no air, no radio, no phone, no nav, no power windows no on board computer.And the enzo will only be a couple tenths faster. The GT is an incredible supercar. I will be able to remove the roof, kick on the stereo and take my low 11 second 205 mph car on a actual roadtrip in complete comfort. And when I feel the need for speed take it to the track and use my carbon fibre monocoque tub for safety. An enzo possesses an antiquated conventional subframe while the GT features a carbon fibre sub frame bolted to the monocoque tub as well as having a lower center of gravity. Further the GT has upright pedals that combine with a lowered seat height position to complete the race car. As well as the shift lever right next to the wheel where it should be. And most important to me it is not a paddle shift. I have driven a 360 on track at speed at Laguna Seca and the paddle shift was fun but it was like driving an automatic. To drive a GT well you will need to match revs at downshifts and actually drive the car, it is like our GT 2 still a drivers car and amen for that. Quite simply the GT will be the best all around performance car on the planet period. I will keep my GT 2 but a mid engine 612 HP 3000 LB monocoqued 4.44 final drive ratio 11 second street and track super car with air and a phone for 440,000 it's a bargain. CANEADDICT don't miss this car the way Dorsey missed Winslow in the end zone to kill our national championship.

Pierre

Les Quam, I fully agree with you!

Whether the Enzo will be slightly faster isn't proven yet, and... who cares?!... The difference will be insignificant and unnoticeable for most people anyway.

And yes, the GT will be fully driveable, probably almost as a daily-driver. Reliability shouldn't be an issue either.

Congratulations for your order! What colors combo did you choose? When will you get it?...

Greetings,
--Pierre

drjim

I think that the closeness in speed will come down more to driver skill than the car. My understanding is that ENZO's at MSRP are impossible to come by whereas GT's are not. Take any point in time from purchase and the value of the car and the lesser depreciation will always be in favor of the ENZO. If I wanted one to drive a bit on the streets, get the GT. If you want one to show and not lose tens if not hundreds of thousands, get the ENZO.

Luke

everytime I read about that car, the weight jumps up another 100lbs. Next thing you see will be the newly re-designed dash w/ 4 cup holders and 2 cigarette lighters.... sunglass holder and a built in cigar humador.

mjc123

Good luck buying an Enzo for $1.2 mil or less right now. I believe the likelihood of the enzo value going back to msrp or less ($675) is much higher than the Carrera GT losing 3/4 it's value. Do the math and see which is a better deal.

dark knight

are cars investments or things we love?
if you buy a car to flip it you justify all the dealers who say charging MSRP isnt a good business practice
if you start with the premise that all cars depreciate you'll always be ahead
so what if they made fewer Enzos, if you want a piece of artwork thats made to mostly look at buy an Enzo, but the Porsche is something to lok at and to drive, which supercar will still be driveable 10 years from now? I thought I read somewhere Porsche still has engine upgrades available for 959 owners, talk about a lack of planned obsolesence, and the GT can be ordered in any color you want, The Carrera GT is one sexy *****, the Enzo is a nice piece of art, but I know which car will love me the most and I know which car I'll trust on a road trip

Dark Knight

caneaddict

Dark Knight
I feel you. I buy cars to drive and enjoy. That's why I am actually happy that Porsche is making so many. I think they will depreciate strongly and then I can come in and pick one up in the 250-280 range. See I would never feel all that comfortable driving a half million dollar car around and putting miles on it. I wouldn't be able to afford the depreciation. However if the price falls to where I think it will, then I can pick one up and run it around having a good time. When someone purchases one of these cars new, they almost have to look at it like art because putting real miles on it would absolutely kill the resale (I'm sure there are those who could care less if they go through 300,000 plus in depreciation per year, so they can buy new and wring it out).

To me every car has a price and I have a budget. However to me the car's price is not the MSRP. It's the yearly depreciation plus lost or paid interest to drive. I really think this is a more intellegent formula then just looking at MSRP. For instance imagine you could buy a Veyron for 1 million and after one year you could sell it for 900,000. Assuming 8% interest, your total cost for one year in the Veyron would be $180,000. Now imagine I buy a Carrera GT for $440,000 and after one year it is worth $260,000. Total cost of ownership for one year $215,200. These are random projections and probably have no validity other than to show that the true ownership cost can't necessarily be determined by looking at MSRP. I do a projected scenario for every car I purchase and that's how I budget. For instance if my projection is correct the Carrera GT will get into the upper 200's within 18 months of production. At that point I think depreciation will fall to about 40k per year for the next 2-3 years and then level off.

Les Quam

Caneaddict, I disagree with your depreciation projections for this car and I'll tell you why.This is not a GT2 which is a lighter twin turbo with some extra HP and suspension tweeks. The carrera GT if you really do your homework is making automotive history in several ways. First the engineers developed a carbon fibre tub,which is found strictly on purpose built racecars. Now a couple of other road cars may have such monocoque tubs. But no road car in history has ever had a carbon fibre subframe which holds the drivetrain. Then Porsche patented a process to fuse the monocoque with the carbon sub frame.Remember no carbon subframes exist because they couldn't previosly withstand the heat.Porsche figured out a way. Then unlike any roadcar before it Porsche took a pure racing pushrod suspension and attached it to the monocoque again a road car first. The GT will have the highest torsional rigidity of any road car in history.It in fact will exceed most race cars other than the prototypes like the GT 1. Porsche then created the lowest center of gravity of any previous road car with the monocoque and subframe I previously mentioned but made it even lower with automotives first ever ceramic clutch. However Porsche has figured out away to not have the car bottom out any worse than the GT2. In fact in testing on racetracks and street Porsche has determined that it will not not bottom out more frequently than the GT2. Porsche then took it's Lemans GT1 motor and adapted it to the street with their patented variocam technology.After completing this rolling chassis again a porsche first.Porsche had created a race car. But they were not finished yet. They created automotives first all carbon fibre body, again overcoming a hurdle no other car builder in history could. Which was how to make a carbon fibre woven body without the weaves showing up after exsposure to weather. At this point they still had a racecar not a roadcar, not a porsche that could be used every day or reliably taken on trips.So porsche decided to build in on their racecar a phone a Bose soundsystem with six speakers navigation, air conditioning,radio and a computer that among other things will tell you tire pressure and tire temperature.And you can program the tire moniter for street or track,Another first.Then they give you luggage much like other supercars give you.But Porshe actually designed places in the car under the center console and behind the passenger seat for the travel bag and garment bag .Even a place on this low 11 second car for the briefcase they give you.Now how will the average driver not crash this car like the GT2? Simple the Carrera GT has the most sophisticated traction control ever put on a road car.Now to further destroy every other supercar that has come before it Porsche made it a targa. Simply put Porsche created an actual purpose built race car, not a 911 road car that is modified for racing purposes. But a race car that is adapted to the street for comfort and RELIABILITY so that you can take trips in it or drive it every day.Porsche built this car to show off, to make every other so called supercar look silly.I haven't even dicussed the decent gas mileage or that Porsche claims it is 3 seconds faster than a GT2 to 124 mph. The world has never before seen a car that could do everything as well as this car. Yes I believe it will drop in value simply because if the 1997 turbo S is depreciating than all POrsche's will drop.But not even remotely close to the levels you foresee. You are as far off on this call as your beloved cane coach who chose the wrong starting QB this year.Almost as blind as the referee who called that phantom interference to cost you the national championship.Come on cane addict do some homework on this car. This car in the 200s in 18 months I don't see it.