Stage X X X X X
04-12-2003, 02:59 AM
#17
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by soon2be993TT:
<strong> <img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/85mm-1.jpg" alt=" - " />
i'm sorry, i just can't get over how much a work of art the europipe piece is. The welds are just unreal</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Welds are greast and all.. but it's all about them bends....
<strong> <img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/85mm-1.jpg" alt=" - " />
i'm sorry, i just can't get over how much a work of art the europipe piece is. The welds are just unreal</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Welds are greast and all.. but it's all about them bends....
04-12-2003, 06:52 PM
#18
cjv,
I have followed your adventures with envy. It is always great to hear another mans tale. I too do similar projects, but at a much lesser scale. But I do love the technical side, even more than driving the finished product.
I am curious why you have decided to change from the "Ti" rods to steel. From what I'm told, they are capable of very high loadings, if they are of good quality. I'm not sure who makes the Ruf ones, but I'm sure they're Austrian. That company makes all of the Ti Rods used in motorsport typically. Your choice of Carrillo also suprises me. Carrillo are generally considered the best of the well known brands, but there are rods out there that are of higher quality and lighter which are typically used in the very highest level of engine projects. You can also get an "I" section rod, which in a Flat 6 engine is far better for internal windage. I have some of these rods in my engine and I did have the opportunity to see and feel the difference between them and the Carrillo's. No offence towards Carrillo, they make a great rod. Just when you seem to include and relish in the best there is, your choices are interesting. I also read some time ago about your Piston choice. That was interesting too. You have a great shop doing your work. The work is amasing. Tell me more about your choices, the reasons etc. I did a lesser project, but used the very best internals that are available for certain components. I'm not criticing your choices, just interested in another viewpoint. If you email me I will tell you who did my project and the names of the companies that provided these parts.
What are you doing in your new engine with regards to the heads, cams, buckets etc?
This sounds like an incredible project. The fact that you share it is also incredible. I appaud you for this. keep up the great work!!!
Simon
I have followed your adventures with envy. It is always great to hear another mans tale. I too do similar projects, but at a much lesser scale. But I do love the technical side, even more than driving the finished product.
I am curious why you have decided to change from the "Ti" rods to steel. From what I'm told, they are capable of very high loadings, if they are of good quality. I'm not sure who makes the Ruf ones, but I'm sure they're Austrian. That company makes all of the Ti Rods used in motorsport typically. Your choice of Carrillo also suprises me. Carrillo are generally considered the best of the well known brands, but there are rods out there that are of higher quality and lighter which are typically used in the very highest level of engine projects. You can also get an "I" section rod, which in a Flat 6 engine is far better for internal windage. I have some of these rods in my engine and I did have the opportunity to see and feel the difference between them and the Carrillo's. No offence towards Carrillo, they make a great rod. Just when you seem to include and relish in the best there is, your choices are interesting. I also read some time ago about your Piston choice. That was interesting too. You have a great shop doing your work. The work is amasing. Tell me more about your choices, the reasons etc. I did a lesser project, but used the very best internals that are available for certain components. I'm not criticing your choices, just interested in another viewpoint. If you email me I will tell you who did my project and the names of the companies that provided these parts.
What are you doing in your new engine with regards to the heads, cams, buckets etc?
This sounds like an incredible project. The fact that you share it is also incredible. I appaud you for this. keep up the great work!!!
Simon
04-13-2003, 06:35 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
Whoa!!
Gorgeoso!!
Magnifico!!
Words cannot describe!!!
CJV, congratulations!!
Out of curiosity, the sound pressure level difference between EP's Stage 2 Loud and Quiet versions is only 3-4 decibels at the various points across the rev range. That does not sound like much to me as I relate it to tweaking my Home Theater with an SPL meter. Is there really that much of an audible difference between their Loud and Quiet? Where will this one fit in from a SPL standpoint?
Gorgeoso!!
Magnifico!!
Words cannot describe!!!
CJV, congratulations!!
Out of curiosity, the sound pressure level difference between EP's Stage 2 Loud and Quiet versions is only 3-4 decibels at the various points across the rev range. That does not sound like much to me as I relate it to tweaking my Home Theater with an SPL meter. Is there really that much of an audible difference between their Loud and Quiet? Where will this one fit in from a SPL standpoint?
04-13-2003, 11:54 PM
#21
Lets see:
Heat Dispersant - Somewhere in the intake tract? On the bottom of the piston and the OUTSIDE of the engine in some areas?
Dry Lube - On the Piston Skirts, Camshaft lobes, maybe the tappets? Going for high lift?
Ceramic Coating - The whole exhaust System, including turbo, Maybe even the exhaust runner on the head if doable. Ah, the top of the piston, and maybe even the combustion chamber on the head - again, if doable.
Did you use SS valves instead of Ti because of Ti's inherent weakness in the "sliding/galling" area?
On thsi second motor - Will you be going all out on EFI? I suppose you will need to? Maybe not, as you have shown that plenty can be done with the OEM stuff.
Heat Dispersant - Somewhere in the intake tract? On the bottom of the piston and the OUTSIDE of the engine in some areas?
Dry Lube - On the Piston Skirts, Camshaft lobes, maybe the tappets? Going for high lift?
Ceramic Coating - The whole exhaust System, including turbo, Maybe even the exhaust runner on the head if doable. Ah, the top of the piston, and maybe even the combustion chamber on the head - again, if doable.
Did you use SS valves instead of Ti because of Ti's inherent weakness in the "sliding/galling" area?
On thsi second motor - Will you be going all out on EFI? I suppose you will need to? Maybe not, as you have shown that plenty can be done with the OEM stuff.
04-16-2003, 11:50 PM
#22
Nordschleife Master
Chad,
You can really see the car breathing up on top from the larger exhaust, but torque is falling off from 6100+, my guess from not enough camshaft given the other improvements made. My guess is that this exhaust is better suited to your new engine that will rev to 8500 than on your stock internal engine.
The cycling still would have me concerned because it cycles down for 300rpm, then bang its right back up there. With all the electronics, I'm thinking that the computer is reacting to something. Examples are:
3900-4100 decreasing then at 4200 Bang!
4400-4500 decreasing then at 4600 Bang!
4800-5000 decreasing then at 5100 Bang!
5300-5500 decreasing then at 5600 Bang!
5700-5900 decreasing then at 6000 Bang!
6200-6300 decreasing then at 6400 Bang!
6600-6800 decreasing then at 6900 Bang!
Something odd is happening when the engine spends more time recovering from a peak number than building up from that peak. There is something more than an AFR issue here.
Someone should hook up the OBD2 computer to your car when doing the dyno run to see what the computer is doing to a) your timing, and b) your variable camshaft. I would venture to guess that one or both of those are odd.
You can really see the car breathing up on top from the larger exhaust, but torque is falling off from 6100+, my guess from not enough camshaft given the other improvements made. My guess is that this exhaust is better suited to your new engine that will rev to 8500 than on your stock internal engine.
The cycling still would have me concerned because it cycles down for 300rpm, then bang its right back up there. With all the electronics, I'm thinking that the computer is reacting to something. Examples are:
3900-4100 decreasing then at 4200 Bang!
4400-4500 decreasing then at 4600 Bang!
4800-5000 decreasing then at 5100 Bang!
5300-5500 decreasing then at 5600 Bang!
5700-5900 decreasing then at 6000 Bang!
6200-6300 decreasing then at 6400 Bang!
6600-6800 decreasing then at 6900 Bang!
Something odd is happening when the engine spends more time recovering from a peak number than building up from that peak. There is something more than an AFR issue here.
Someone should hook up the OBD2 computer to your car when doing the dyno run to see what the computer is doing to a) your timing, and b) your variable camshaft. I would venture to guess that one or both of those are odd.
04-17-2003, 01:23 AM
#23
Chad,
Great numbers. Another couch mechanic would add, could possibly the new Exhaust have better flow to W/G valve and you are lifting the valve, very slightly, computer then keeps adding to control target boost. Just a thought from the back row.
The other post gave great advice too. Hey whata I know.
Keep up the great work.
Great numbers. Another couch mechanic would add, could possibly the new Exhaust have better flow to W/G valve and you are lifting the valve, very slightly, computer then keeps adding to control target boost. Just a thought from the back row.
The other post gave great advice too. Hey whata I know.
Keep up the great work.
04-17-2003, 01:26 AM
#24
Chad, Thinking about it, the other post is right. If the boost was been adjusted slightly, I should expect this to be alot slower. Your changes happen immediately, and as stated this would be from timing etc. Boost changes would happen alot slower thro' the RPM's.
Simon
Simon
04-17-2003, 02:38 AM
#25
Racer
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Oh my!!!
CONGRATULATIONS CHAD!
That new exhaust is really delivering some significant results. What was the name of that book again? Just kidding I've already looked it up and will be ordering it in the morning.
Again Congrats!
CONGRATULATIONS CHAD!
That new exhaust is really delivering some significant results. What was the name of that book again? Just kidding I've already looked it up and will be ordering it in the morning.
Again Congrats!
04-17-2003, 02:58 AM
#26
Could it be the sampling rate of the dyno, or just a function of a chassis dyno?
Chad, I must agree with Geoffrey, the Torque does drop off pretty fast. Makes for great midrange, but your new engine I expect you will adjust for this and will probably give you a flatter torque curve. Now its down to air flow. Heads, Cams, Valve Train parts,Piston design and friction.
Chad, I must agree with Geoffrey, the Torque does drop off pretty fast. Makes for great midrange, but your new engine I expect you will adjust for this and will probably give you a flatter torque curve. Now its down to air flow. Heads, Cams, Valve Train parts,Piston design and friction.
04-17-2003, 02:59 AM
#27
Race Car
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by cjv:
<strong>This is the first time I realized this. Am I missing something. Any ideas why this occurs?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">It would be a good idea to see if your knock sensors are interfering...you could be detonating with all the pressure and not even know it. If the knock sensors aren't happy then the computer could be pulling your timing back to prevent damage to the engine, and advancing again in cycles to give better performance.
I'm not sure what type of dyno you're using, but...I suppose fluctuations like these could even be caused by the tires bouncing a tiny bit on the rollers?
<strong>This is the first time I realized this. Am I missing something. Any ideas why this occurs?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">It would be a good idea to see if your knock sensors are interfering...you could be detonating with all the pressure and not even know it. If the knock sensors aren't happy then the computer could be pulling your timing back to prevent damage to the engine, and advancing again in cycles to give better performance.
I'm not sure what type of dyno you're using, but...I suppose fluctuations like these could even be caused by the tires bouncing a tiny bit on the rollers?
04-17-2003, 10:22 AM
#28
Nordschleife Master
Chad,
Without the other data on the ECU (timing, variable cam, MAP) it is very hard to guess. If you have a log of those parameters, you can get a very good idea if the ECU is doing something, the wastegates, etc. I'd also do a run on a newer dyno.
Without the other data on the ECU (timing, variable cam, MAP) it is very hard to guess. If you have a log of those parameters, you can get a very good idea if the ECU is doing something, the wastegates, etc. I'd also do a run on a newer dyno.
04-19-2003, 12:30 AM
#29
Burning Brakes
Chad,
I called Rob several times regarding your old exhaust but the sale date and price was a moving target. I decided to go to Stef directly. I am anxiously awaiting receipt of it, Stef was very nice to work with. Thanks for your insight regarding EP's performance and quality.
Regards,
Ken
I called Rob several times regarding your old exhaust but the sale date and price was a moving target. I decided to go to Stef directly. I am anxiously awaiting receipt of it, Stef was very nice to work with. Thanks for your insight regarding EP's performance and quality.
Regards,
Ken