KPG

I would like to purchase harness restraints for upcoming DE events. Is there any way to use the regular TT seats with a harness. Due to the equal restraint regulation for DEs I do not want to buy 2 GT3 seats for 6 or 7 events, but I was sliding all over the place with the 3pt seatbelt. Has anyone used the Tequipment roll bar or the Brey-Krause harness bar with regular seats. Also how much would cloth GT3 seats cost? Also what type of restraints are recommended? Thanks, Kevin

Woodster

Guy in my local club uses the Brey-Krause R-1035 aluminum harness mount
for his harnesses WITHOUT GT3 seats. He says it works great.
I may try it myself.
MK

KPG

Thanks Marty, that is the BK model I am looking into but thought the Tequipment roll bar would be an added measure of safety. Any idea what those are costing these days? Thanks, kevin

ltc

5 point harnesses are not really recommended/preferred for new installations, at least at the last driver safety/crash presentation by Tom Gideon of GM Racing. 6 or 7 points are now the preferred way to go for driver restraint/body control.

My concern with a 5 point used with OEM street seats is the sub belt being too far forward (obviously, since there's no slot in the seat), thus allowing for the possibility of you submarining/sliding too far forward in the event of an impact.

I am hoping you will also be wearing a H&N restraint (ISAAC, R3 or HANS), and this type of installation would potentially have some issues with regards to shoulder strap location/placement/stability.

Questions like these have been asked and discussed numerous times in the past in the Racing/DE forum; lots of experienced folks over there....you may want to do a search or re-post this question.

Woodster

I bought Tequipment bar without the cross braces for $600 including shipping
(new in wrapper from Rennlister).
Suncoast has the same one (#99658098000) for $795 Plus tax & shipping
The one with its own cross braces (back seat unusable) is $ 1195.
Suncoast Motorsports 1-877-923-1700
or call Viper Bob @ 1-650-743-6801
Marty K.

KPG

Thanks for the info guys! Kevin

Oak

sure it's possible, but won't restrain you correctly. esp the shoulder restraints.

Bob Rouleau

KPG - Check with the organizers of track days you attend. A number of PCA regions do not permit the use of a harness without seats designed for the purpose (i.e. with holes for the shoulder straps and sub belt). It has been shown than in an accident the straps might slip off the shoulders with ugly consequences. If the sub belt does not come up through a hole in the seat bottom, it is useless as others have pointed out. The body will accelerate too much before being restrained by the anti submarine belt(s).

In my region, you can wear your harness with an OEM seat but you have to wear the OEM 3 point seat belt over it. That way the body is restrained even if the shoulder harness slips down.

Lastly, most regions with the "equal restraint" rule will accept the driver wearing the OEM 3 point belt INSTEAD of the harness when an instructor rides with you. In other words you leave your harness off and both parties have equal restraint. I don't believe too many instructors would accept to ride with you wearing a relatively useless 5 point harness on an OEM seat. I would not, if that matters.

As a reminder to anyone wearing a harness with the OEM seat, please remember to wear your regular seat belt over it. It causes no discomfort and could save you if something untoward happens.

Best,




With the OEM seat the anti submarine strap is useless.

ltc

http://www.carnewal-europe.com/cpx_p93084.htm
(Gert is a rennlist sponsor and good guy)

You could also get a quote from Sunset Imports (cost + 15%) as well:
http://www.sunsetimports.com/porscheatcost.php
(fill out the inquiry and they'll respond in 24 hours)

KPG

Bob, Oak, ITC, thanks for the info. Basically there is no cheap way out of this, I guess. As for the shoulder straps allowing the torso to come forward, the Brey- Krause Harmess bar has defined strap holders that will not allow the shoulder straps to move on the bar... shouldnt that prevent the straps from coming off the shoulders? Any other suggestions would be great. Thanks , Kevin

ltc

You're welcome. I try to always seperate "safety" and "cheap".

The concern is the shoulder straps spreading apart in the event your body/torso is thrown forward (not sure even a sternum strap would help in this case). It is a farily violent event, even at 35mph:
http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/Video/Lateral.wmv


As for other suggestions, there are many options for H&N restraints, harnesses (the Schroth hybrid 6 points are VERY comfortable crotch belts.....I bought a pair of Titanium 6 points and had them flown in from Germany) and GT3 seats are a good compromise street/track seat that will allow for both 3 and 6 points. A rollbar/cage is also highly recommended when you are restrained in a seat (you can't roll left/right like you can with a stock seat/3 point harness) in the event of a rollover. Make sure you mount your fire extinguisher where you can reach it while strapped in (or install a hard plumbed fire system), an electrical cut off switch is a good idea as well), a Nomex driving suit, SA rated helmet.....
You can see where this is going; there comes a time when a car becomes a dedicated track car and not a street legal daily driver.

KPG

ITC, pretty sobering video. Kevin

JP Schnitzer

I ran Sparco 5 points with my stock sport seats for a few events with PCA. I used the brey krause harness bar, and also utilzed a strong nylon webbing "halo" to position the shoulder harnesses so that they did not slip off the shoulder.

The system worked OK, but the primary problem is that you are still, even with the harnesses tight, fighting those sport seats during really hard G loading. Finally got smart and put in the GT3 seats, and now can relax during hairball driving.

Garey Cooper

My set up is almost the exact same as JP Schnitzer's. Stock sport seats, Brey-Krause harness bar and Schroth five point harness (I just use 4 points, not the crotch strap). I always fasten the factory three point over the Schroth, it turns out the dash light at least and helps a bit more in the restraint.

I feel much better located in the Schroth harness, compared to just using the stock harness. Having said that it is still a struggle to hold in place with the stock seats, just as JP says.

I too feel a sternum strap would help as the feeling is you could slip right through the shoulder straps in a direct head-on just using the Schroth.

I have forestalled on the GT-3 seats as I want to have access to the back area for golf clubs and such.

KPG....my feeling is that there is some benefit to the harness even with the stock seats. But also buckle up the three point.

P.S. wearing levi's or denim also helps the body grip the seat area if it is legal with your intended use. Most drivers suits and other types of cloth materials are pretty slippery against the leather of the Porsche seat.

KPG

JP and Gary, thanks... I am just looking for an added measure of security... I do not want to turn the car into a track only car because my wife and kids wouldn't be too happy! Kevin