mooty

you can use harness with any seat you want, i use it on my dining chair as well.
but if you want to ADD safety to track day driving, it is best used with proper seats (such as GT3 seats, recardo racing shell, sparco etc).

there are many discussions as to why it's not very safe to use harness with oem seats in old posts.

KPG

Mooty, I understand what you are saying. I will not turn this car into a race car because my wife drives it almost every day. Having said that, I realize there are risks associated with taking this or any car to a track... heck it is scary with the general public on the highways. I want to add a measure of safety at the track ,not eliminate it since that would require staying home. I am having a terrible time with my stock 3 pt belts and want a little more security in the seat. Are you saying that a harness and a 3 pt with a stock seat is not as good a stock seat and 3pt only? I am glad you are securely attached to your chair at dinner! I am not going to install GT3 Seats, so are you saying it is better to just drive as is , instead of a 6 pt with a sternum strap? Thanks for your input. Kevin

tkerrmd

Kevin, instead of the harness thing how about changing the seats or just the driver seat. A good racing seat really gives alot more support than stock, especially lateral g's. If you try the seat you may be ok at the track.
Another thing I'm sure you are aware of is twisting the seat belt so it hold firmly, if done right this feels pretty snug and helps alot.
I am taking out my sport seats and putting in the GT3 seats, then trying to decide between Marty and JP's set up. It is a juggling act to try to have a car do track duty, but to me that is what really makes this car worth its stuff!!!

ltc

Kevin,
Another option is to install seats that have proper slots for shoulder harnesses, but that also fold forward.
Recaro makes this type of seat, you might even be able to get a slot for sub straps that would not even be visible.
This, in addition to proper mounts for the harness and a Tequipment rollbar or BK harness truss (not harness guide bar), would provide for better safety than what has previously been proposed.

I would also strongly suggest the purchase of ANY of the H&N restraints most often discussed (ISAAC, HANS or R3). The R3 is unique in that it is worn, so it CAN be used with a 3 point harness.

Safety is all about perspective and experience. Watching a sled crash makes you understand what 35mph crash does to your head/neck. Losing control of the car at high speeds (lifting at apex, trailing throttle oversteer, etc) and becoming a passenger is not the time to be thinking about safety equipment.

Be safe, then have fun.

KPG

ITC, thanks ... you are a great source of info. As a matter of fact, I did check on a Recaro sport seat that has the sub strap cut out and shoulder holes that reclines... relatively cheap too- 700$. That is what I am leaning towards. Have not given much thought to a HANS system yet, but I will go with the proper R1035 harness from B-K. Thanks,Kevin

ltc

You're welcome.

BTW, ISAAC makes a H&N restraint version, the Link, for $295.
It is far better than wearing nothing at all.
Purchasing an R3, HANS, ISAAC is a fairly sizeable investment ($800-$1000), but the cost is most recoverable, as their resale values are still fairly high, should you not pursue track driving.

BK should be able to supply you with the harness truss (to mount the shoulder straps to) in addition to belt termination hardware.

I would also consider looking at the Schroth hybrids, if for nothing else but for comfort (and keeping metal hardware away from 'the boys'). With the seats you mentioned, the sub belts can be tucked underneath for street driving, the shoulder harnesses and truss removed and the lap belts stored as well.

mooty

kpg, i understand your dual use of the car.

Are you saying that a harness and a 3 pt with a stock seat is not as good a stock seat and 3pt only?
________________
i dont have personal experience on this, and i hope i never do. however, several ppl on the racing forum have said that harness with stock seat is more dangerous than no harness at all. i can't give you definitive answer on this one, sorry.

foldable seats: chk recaro srd.

i dont know how issac works, but i really would not wear HANS without a well integrated harness, seat and roll bar system. the angle of the shoulder strap relative to the shoulder strap holes, shoulder stress bar height etc. if you dont get the relationship right, HANS will not do the job as design. i wish i can give you simpler answers, but i can't.

ltc

ISAAC and HANS require proper shoulder belt/seat mounting. ISAAC attaches to the shoulder harnesses with rollers, HANS is captured under the shoulder harnesses. I've worn both (in my Cup car with proper seats, rollcage, etc)

R3 is worn, has no relationship to the harnesses, so it CAN be worn with a 3 point harness (as many instructors do when teaching in a 'street' car.

One of the first things you will notice when properly seated/belted into a race car is that you suddenly regain use of your left foot/leg. You are no longer using it, pressed against the floorboard, to hold you in your seat. You will see many people doing this in stock/street cars as their corner/entry speed increase.

I guess this is why 'track driving' is a slippery slope.

mooty

Heeeeheeeeeeeee, i guess you dont corner fast enough then... i am bucked down hard with bruises on my pelvic bone and shoulder blade and i still have to prop my self up wiht my left foot LOL....

just kidding, can't resisit.

ltc

Kevin,
There is another possiblity perhaps.
It looks as though the new design seat in the 997 Turbo has slots for proper routing of shoulder straps. Sort of looks like the seats in the CGT.

No idea if these will ever make it in US cars (stupid DOT crash testing, yadayada), but you could always purchase them from Gert (rennlist sponsor) at www.carnewal.com and ship them over.

This would give you an OEM folding seat with shoulder belt slots; the only other question would be the sub straps.

ltc

When I do go fast enough is when I tend to spin

KPG

Itc, thanks again... 997 seats sound like the ideal solution for me but I am afraid to even inquire about cost, they will probably make GT3 seats look like patio chairs! Worth looking into though. Kevin

KPG

itc, just checked on the Porsche website for pics of European models and cannot find the seats you mentioned. Where did you see pics? Thanks, Kevin

Fred R. C4S

Kevin,

Give me a call - 309-675-4882. The Recaro Speed 5 seat with adjustable backrest and holes for the shoulder harnesses and sub belt will not fit in a 996. It's too hard for a written explanation, but I can explain it over the phone.

Cheers,

Fred R. C4S

Kevin,

This is what keeps from neutering you!