cab2u

I have been trying to decide all day whether to post a message about what happened to me today. I am so mad and frustrated, I decided I would.

I have been looking for a 2001 or 2002 911 Turbo for several months. About three weeks ago I found an interesting listing for a 2002 Lapis Turbo being sold by Don Rosen Imports, a Porsche dealer in Pennsylvania. I emailed the dealer and was contacted by Tim Hoffman, a salesman. I interrogated him about the car. He told me that the car was perfect, never repainted and never in an accident. I had several detailed conversations about the condition of the car. I asked whether he used a paint meter and his response was that they meter every used car, including this one, and there was no repaint. This was important because if we were able to make a deal, I would be buying it site unseen. I would only do this because it was a Porsche dealer and the car would be CPO. It had already been certified when I first spoke to him.

I had many more conversations and he assured me that the car was perfect. During one telephone call, he even put me on hold and did a detailed walk around the car just to make sure it was perfect, which he said it was. We negotiated a deal including a trade in for my 2000 911 C2. I gave him a $500 deposit and made arrangements to pick up the car. That included, which he knew, me driving 100 miles in the opposite direction to pick up my car at my summer house, and then driving 200 miles to PA to his dealership.

I arrived at the dealership and the Turbo was parked outside. I had no reason to believe it would be anything other than perfect. When I walked up to the driver's side, I noticed an unusual orange peel on the door. I immediately knew the door was repainted. I had him bring it inside as it was raining to inspect the rest of the car. When I told him the door was repainted, he said I was absolutely wrong since the car was metered. The repaint was obvious. I then noticed unusual paint on the driver's side fender, which was obviously repainted. Then, I looked at the hood. I cannot even explain what it looked like. It looked like it was painted by a 5 year old. The front bumper was also repainted. It was clear that the bumper and hood were replaced. I believe the fender and door were also replaced. I was in complete shock that I had just driven several hundred miles for what was one of the worst Turbos, or cars for that matter, that I had ever seen. By this time, the salesman went to get the manager. He looked at the car and immediately confirmed what I had found. He then opened the hood and pulled the rubber seal from the metal, which looks like it was bent and straightened with a vise-grip. This car had clearly been in an accident and so poorly repaired it is almost indescribable.

The manager, of course, kept saying that he understood and was apologetic. He could not believe that his used car salesman took the car in on trade and made it available for sale. Everyone was playing ignorant. If you saw the car, there is no way it could have slipped by them.

I would not be surprised if this happened at a used car dealership, but this is a Porsche dealer. Finally, the manager offered me $250 for my time. That was an insult. When he asked me what they could do, I told him to give me an incredible deal on the 2003 Turbo that I knew they also had. That, of course, didn't happen.

Right or wrong, it was such a bad experience, I felt like I had to post this message. I will be following this up with a letter to Porsche of North America.

tkerrmd

Really sorry to hear that, may have been for the best, keep looking the car is worth the wait. When you find the one you want you will not be disappointed!!

Dock

I'd follow that up with a phone call to the owner of the dealership.

T2

My friend is selling this one and it is a charmer of a car....

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=36517

JPschnitzer

Here are a few of my observations:

1) Thank goodness you did not buy the car. You did the right thing by going and looking it over.
2) There is a distinct lack of knowledge among Porsche Salespeople these days to the point that I am surprised when I find one that actually has about 1/4 of the knowledge that I do, as an enthusiast.
3) Always stipulate, and confirm in writing, on the sales contract that the car is "as new" with zero paint work etc. If that is what they are telling you, then they will have no problem putting it in writing.
4) I have learned to never trust somebody else's eyes. The old saying "if you want something done right....." When it comes to cars, one must live by this saying.

Just some thoughts.

Truble10

I had a very similar experience with Park Place motors in WA. It was about six years ago and the car was a 1991 C2 Turbo. The car was suppose to be "perfect" and all original. I bought the car sight unseen and had it delivered to Powerhaus in Arizona for some immediate mods. I'll never forget the call from David at Powerhaus when he said "Todd, we have a problem".

The clutch was bad, the interior was worn and 2/3's of the car was repainted - very poorly. It was really a below average Porsche and I was looking and paying for a garage queen. At first they were very helpful on the phone. This was probably due to the fact that the person who bought my old turbo just happend to be a attourney who was a Park Place customer in WA.

We decided to get a third party involved - Barrett Jackson here in Arizona. They did a detailed inspection and verified everything that I complained about. The report was sent back to Park Place and it fell on deaf ears. They were not going to do anything.

Needless to say after almost two years of legal battles and a we settled out of court for an amount that barely covered my legal expenses and left me with a below average car I had to sell at a significant loss. I just wished the salesman was honest and represented the car acurately. I was not looking for anything other than what I was paying for.

I guess the moral of the story is to always take the time to personally inspect any vehicles you are looking to buy. I really don't have a huge distrust of dealers but I really did expect more from a place that markets their dealership as a "highline auto dealer".

Sorry to hear about your troubles but at least you took the time to inspect the vehicle in person.

Joe Weinstein

We should organize a minor sting: Have someone else act like
an interested party, and ask the same sorts of questions, and
see if the same dealer behaves the same (as if they don't know
about any repair history...)
Joe

CP

Most salesmen will say what (he thinks) you want to hear to make a sale, hoping and praying (or is that preying) that the buyer is ignorant on car matters. They do get lucky many times, that's why they keep doing it.

Sorry about the bad experience. At least you did not buy the car. Good luck hunting.

CP

BC

I'm a bit confused as to why Electronic Pictures are not involved? (six years ago, fine), but with it now being standard for a dealer to have 5 or 6MP camera, which will beleye even more detail then your naked eye, I'm just confused. So First choice = first person, second choice = large MP digital camera shots of all sides up close.

Truble10

I had several detailed pictures emailed to me. With this particular color - midnight blue, it was impossible to see what was obvious to the eye.

Woodster

When I took delivery of my beautiful Midnight Blue/Blk/6-speed 996TT everything looked
perfect...until I started it up. The transport company ripped 2 large holes in my exhaust system
which I noticed AFTER I SIGNED THEIR WAIVER. Not good, I was sick about it. I began to
waste more money on legal fees than it was worth and dropped it.
When you recieve your car GO OVER IT WITH "FINE TOOTH COMB"!!!

BC

Fair enough. Just thought I would add my thoughts.

cab2u

The dealer emailed me pictures. The car looked fine. It is impossible to tell in pictures.

robertp

I can empathize. I purchased a new 2005 Turbo S Cab. The care was flawless, but after the odometer hit 100 miles, the car died. Three weeks later, my local dealer replaced the engine wiring harness. I purchased the car from a NJ dealer (Who was great during the sale and ordeal) and had it transported to CA. I purchased while only viewing pictures and discussions with the salesman. It was hard to do, but worth every penny.

sheerk

I thought this may be the same turbo you had a bad expereince with. Look at the license plate frame.........if so...this guy has a lot of nerve!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-tu...ayphotohosting

ITEM # 4620244924