faterikcartman

Well, we're still left with Porsche knowing how to check its own event cars for track damage and selling them "certified" but unable, um, unwilling, to determine if yours was damaged at the track.

Dock

As I was told by PCNA, their policy concerning warranty coverage has not changed in at least 19 years.

Dock

A swing and a miss on all your points.

Dock

Prior to selling a PDE car PCNA either fixes/replaces worn parts, or excludes those parts for coverage under warranty.

1AS

I thought we had wound this thread ll the way down, but I guess not.
Dock, do you believe they disassemble the gearboxes of the track cars before deciding if they are worn or abused? It's a nice thought, but unlikely. Does anyone know if a car was purchased with a warranty exclusion on the gearbox? That too seems a stretch.
There is a disconnect between the assertions and reality on both sides of this arguement.
Buyers feel they purchased a car that could be tracked, based on verbal statements, ads, and history, while PCNA says "no". PCNA asserts that some cars have been abused, while the owner says "no".
Seems that the score is PCNA 2, Customers 0.
I don't see how this ends, except with a more universal recognition of a changing world which is decreasingly friendly to track users with warrranty claims.
Obviously, I'm not seriously tracking my car until the warranty lapses, but I guess that even using it to demonstrate line or shifting is not safe. AS

Bob Rouleau

AS - What is annoying is that PCNA is both defendant, judge and jury. There's something wrong with that picture. As for me, I will continue to enjoy my GT3 on the track because I have little reason to expect it will be any less reliable than my previous Porche cars, all of which saw heavy track use. It would be interesting to "discuss" the warranty exclusions on a tracked GT2 or 3 though. The term "implied fitness for use" comes to mind also the maxim of if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ....!

In the case of the PCCB affair I give Porsche some leeway since rotors are something I would never claim on warranty under normal circumstances. Of course rotors don't usually cost as much as a one year old Boxster either.

I hope someone will send the dead tranny to Chris Cervelli, I'd love to hear an independent opinion of what failed and why.

Regards,

faterikcartman

Really Dock, what are you talking about. Through this entire thread you've failed to respond to pretty much any of my points. I've broken yours down quote by quote and shown you don't know what you're talking about. You've failed to do the same. Conclusory quips get you an F in law school and a failure on the bar exam. They are great, however, for those who favour your same brand of Kool-Aid.

pedsurg

Bob: Does Porsche distinguish the gt line from "other" vis a vis tracking and warranty issues. It seems the gt class purchaser is paying extra serious money for implied durability and performance. Really, what does one do with a gt class car if he/she doen't track it?

Jack

Dock

Do you have trouble understanding the point when someone uses sports analogies to explain your performance?

And my replies to your posts have been short and to the point...and clear.

worf928

Great thread. One question: So I buy a new Porsche with the Sport Chrono package the implied (implied? hardly. make that 'intended') use of which is to time laps. I use this feature to time my commute to work. Once. Then my transaxle blows up. It isn't far fetched to assume that the fact of the use of the timer can be retrieved from the car's on-board systems and used to deny a warranty claim.

As for the Corvette: The C5 Z06 warranty book most definitely did exclude timed events and in bold-face: drag racing. IIRC there was no shot-gunning of the word 'track' though. It most definitely came with a video of how to setup the car for the track. My wife's Z06 has 3000+ track miles on it. We did not have a single issue with the car during its two year warranty (and 2000 of those track miles.) The dealer knows my wife tracks the car.No doubt about it as they fill out the pre-track inspection form. Last year the dealer fixed the very first issue - for free and out of warranty.

I hate to say it - and coming from a '928 guy' you all will probably just ignore it - but as a long-time Porsche enthusiast seeing the new Porsche cars, the 'new' stance by PCNA on warranty issues, and the hypocrisy of selling PDE cars with a CPO warranty while denying claims from their enthusiast base it seems obvious: Porsche is no longer interested in the enthusiast market. They are focused on getting 'lifestyle' business from those that will pay a premium (and the depreciation) for their new cars and to Hell with those that continue to insist that the premium for a Porsche should result in a car with higher quality or sturdier design and engineering.

Bob Rouleau

Jack - I assume the warranty on the GT2 and 3 is the same as the rest. I have never looked, never had to. It would be interesting to challenge it though. A car clearly designed for track use, videos showing it on a track and a warranty that says "no track". Could be deemed misleading by some. As I said before I don't know why this has become an issue lately. Some exec trying to earn a bonus by reducing warranty claims perhaps?

pedsurg

Bob: I suspect you're correct, as usual. But the whole "gt thing": the 964 case dry sump, rebuildable g-50 based tranny etc etc. seems to imply a much higher level of performance and, perhaps the most important word in Porsche racing, durability.
Jack

faterikcartman

I guess I should have said you've failed to respond to my points with facts, logic, and reasoned argument.

Frankly, you usually simply failed to be responsive. Most of my points you simply ignored or glossed over.

I will admit, however, that your glib responses have been short and clear. It's not hard to understand what point you're making with your smart-alecly insinuations and dismissive statements.

For your benefit I'm including a dictionary definition and usage example of "glib":

Showing little thought, preparation, or concern: a glib response to a complex question.

Regarding a poster's question about what a GT car is for I recently asked a Porsche sales associate about getting the new GT3 when it comes out rather than the TT. He told me that the GT was only for racing and track use and that it wasn't made for street use.

Dock, I know I know. I'll save you the trouble; I just dreamt I heard that and even if I did here that it is PCNA's official policy that nothing sales associates say before you buy the car is true and the only things a customer can rely on are the publications he is given after he purchases the car.

Okay, okay Doc, I'll say this for you too: one can also root around on Porsche's website to learn their warranty won't apply to your use of the GT car but please ignore the part on the website about "Top Track Speed" because if you take it on a track your warranty is void. Knowing what part of the website to believe is, of course, the buyer's responsibility.

Oh, and it really isn't made for the track despite what a salesman has told you.

Oh, oh, oh, don't be confused about the rock hard suspension that only feels reasonably comfortable on a smooth "track-like" surface and may skitter if a bump is hit on a turn, that suspension is absolutely NOT built for a track, it is the new public road tuned bone-jarring ride dynamic desired by today's well-heeled car buyer. Seriously.

Dock

I'll try one more time.

If you think you have a case against the dealer(s)/PCNA concerning advertisements and warranty issues, take it to court.

What don't you understand about that??

Bob Rouleau

Jack - there are 16 GT3s in our local club and all of them track extensively. There are two GT2s - same story. One of them was mine and the new owner tracks it. No failures of any kind except PCCB. The sample size of GT2s is too small to matter but both have 15,000 or more track miles and were and are driven by experts (instructors and/or racers, all). One thing I have noticed on all the 986 and 996 cars is that under high loads, the transmission will balk on the 2-3 upshift. This includes the GT cars. This never happens to me on the street but every high level track driver has experienced it on certain turns consistently say one in ten or so. If you are ham fisted dealing with it, (try to jam it into gear) I could see damage resulting. That might rate as abuse, but the transmission shouldn't balk in the first place. The PDE instructors are aware of the problem and teach a "heartbeat: technique. Wait a heartbeat before moving the lever to the next gear. I wonder if there is a connection to the failures being discussed here?

Dock - if I may, it seems that PCNA is using you as a conduit to this thread. Is the conduit two ways? Perhaps seeing the views of hard core enthusiasts, management may consider revising some of their policies. I can at least hope.

Rgds,