shiv@vishnu

No need to stay out. Feel free to offer your input. Just curious though.. what is the price of the optional hand-held map switcher?

-shiv

Brokenleg

I appologize if this is too far off topic, but I notice the comment about the PSM/ABS issues with remapping. I get a failure about once or twice a month with a Cargrafic chip (installed in late 2005). Is this unavoidable? And, is a chip old school at this point?

KPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorschePhD
I think I will respectfully stay out of this one...

Apparently, some who offered their input on product and vendor have already been removed. Why?Knowledge is power.

shiv@vishnu

Have you contacted Cargrafic or the particular vendor?

-shiv

shiv@vishnu

Stephen pretty much answered your question regarding the GIAC flashing solution. As for the PocketPower system, all flashes done to the computer are stored in nonvolotile flash memory. Meaning that whatever the user last flashed into the ECU is are there to stay regardless of battery power loss, ECU resetting, etc,. Consider the flashed ECU to behave just like a factory ECU in every way, shape or form (with the exception of the data in the performance-related engine parameters).

Regards,
shiv

Woodster

PSI programming does not lose its "power" if the battery goes dead.

This seems quite inconveniant to me...

MK

Brokenleg

Have you contacted Cargrafic or the particular vendor?

-shiv

No, I will not go through the supplier because of not so great experience. I will try Cargrafic. I am curious about the difference between flash and chip and why someone would chip a car in late 2005 (my own ignorance here) when fashing seems to be a more efficient way to get it done?

Shark

Price....$700 vs over $2k

Now I haven't made up my mind yet....but sometimes the price looks pretty good

Brokenleg

The chip is more expensive? (mine cost 2K). If its any help, the Cargrafic I have was suppose to be a top quality map. It performs very well with very smooth response every where in the power band, pulls very hard up to 200 rpm over red line showing .9 bar boost and 1 bar with 100 octane. No rough running at idle or just off idle. But as I said it throws PSM/ABS codes periodically. Not really sure if the systems are actually off when it does this. A restart clears the codes. Seems to me if its just code being modded, the flash would be a better way to go if for nothing else but the price differential.

shiv@vishnu

I don't think Stephen implied that their GIAC reflash reverts back to stock if the battery goes dead. As I understood it, it defaults back to a stock-like map if the ECU has map switching capabilities (and one of the maps is "stock-like"). If this were to happen, the user would either visit a GIAC dealer or switch back to the desired map using the optional hand-held map switcher. Although I'm guessing that those with a multi-map ECU would already have already purchased in the hand held unit.

Is this right Stephen? I don't want to put words into your mouth.

-shiv

Woodster

Same difference it sounds like if either way you need to do something
to ECU (reflash with hand held switcher, go to dealer if you are close and
that is convenient, or send in ECU)when battery goes dead to get back
previous levels of performance. I call this inconvenient.
Marty

PorschePhD

Yes Marty that is correct.

Reread my post. The process we use is the same protocol as the factory flash. The stored stock program will revert on battery loss. Read: it will switch, not write. It is physically impossible for the ECU to write to itself. So let me make sure that I can confuse a few more people 

If you have a single flash, meaning only the performance file when you disconnect the battery this is still present. It can only be changed by flashing in a different program. It will always be there unless some physically removes it.

If you purchased the options for a stock program, valet, race or performance then the unit when the battery removed will revert (switch only not write or copy) to stock. This is in case you can not get the battery to work at all and do not want the dealer to know it is modified.

You get the new battery and when you get the car back you simply hook the switcher into the OBD2 port as you would to switch and simply push what ever file you want to bring up. You do not send the ECU back. All the files are stored within the chip. Again, they are flashed (copied) into the ECU. It is still there, you will just need to switch it back when you get the car back.

Let me know if this helps or makes it worse.

shiv@vishnu

I can't really speak for Cargraphic but reflashing is usually considered to be the more attractive approach of the two. Not only is it 100% reversible, but updates are also easy to implement. It's also a whole lot less risky since it doesn't involve any circuit board work or the installation of any non OE-spec surface mount hardware. The flashing process also takes a whole lot less time since you are not physically opening the ECU case and playing operator on your ECU board.

To be fair, there can be operational advantages of chipping an ECU (ie. adding physical memory which could conceivable allow for more features, functionality, etc,.) But I don't know if anyone has taken advantage of that potential (if it indeed exists for this particular application).

One unfortunate problem you may have to deal with is the possible inability to flash your now re-chipped ECU. If you do chose to go down that path later, you may have to revert your ECU to standard condition.

It's probably best to talk to the representitives at Cargraphics if you need more specific answers to your questions. I'm just going off personal experience gathered from chipping and flashing various ECUs for the last several years. Your actual mileage may vary.

best regards,
shiv

PorschePhD

There are no advantages to chipping an ECU. If one has the entire protocol than any of the functions that you would control via chipping can also be done via flashing. The issue is how does one hide the program and protect it. Ah, here is where the masses get separated. If one sucks down our chip you get random garbage as apposed to sucking down some of the other flashable units. Pull some of the other units that don't sit in an ecrypter and the whole file is for the viewing. This is also used when ECUs are sent in as most do not have the ability to write to an ECU on the bench. A burner will burn the chip regardless of what it is attached to in the end. You force data into it. This is what took us the longest to release the flash software. When data is flashed into the ECU of the Porsche/VW or Audi it uses the instrument cluster as a gateway to talk to the ECU. By not having the cluster on a bench and a full wiring harness to a car one could not flash on the bench unless you were Bosch. We also have the ability to do this with the software we have. This allows us to simply hook in to the K line of the ECU, a 12 volt power supply and load our software. This is how Bosch does it at the factory. We can simulate everything through software on my laptop to ensure the ECU is functioning properly and all the software has been loaded correctly. Aside from Bench flashing the other way we load is obviously through the OBD2 port of the car. So we can either do mail order or in car flashing. Few have this ability . In the old days of enrypters the only way to know if something was 100 % was to load the ECU in my car and hook the PST2 to it for a module check. No fun.





Bench flashing in house. OBD2 harness and cables at my desk.



There is not one option that we can not take advantage of through flashing. It all depends on whether one has the full programming ability to do so. This is one of the reasons we canz remap the eGas as well as the cam profile on the new kits. There is no reason to add more memory to the 800BB chip. It carries enough physical memory to run all 2700 maps x 5 with room to spare. This is how we allocate the additional programs. The VW and Audi which use smaller chips also have more than enough physical memory.


main chip

Chipped ECUs are a thing of the past. To remove a 7.8 chip it is epoxied 8 times to the board with over 40 legs. So one has to be able to remove those legs and epoxy without lifting a leg. I have done hundreds and can tell you that there is one way only that works and all the fancy tools out there do not do the trick. Not even the 1500.00 lifters.


Damaged board from another vender. Damaged from removal.


Epoxy on the chip.






Simply reading down the ECU will not tell the whole story either. Some of the maps remain in the system and have to see a request (physically) to dump that information. I will not go into great detail, but I will assure you that on a daily basis this is done. It is a software/physical issue that does not require removal of the chip.


Old style burner


Embolizer chip.

Any chip that does not have an encypter and I believe CG and TA both use EVCs 600 or equivalent. These can not be written over without removing the chip. They will have to go back to the supplier as most remove the embolizer numbers and allow it to be an "open" ECU. This means that it would have to be programmed as a "new" ECU.

EVC 600 Encypter

PorschePhD

150.00