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since I repaired the cylinders I basically understand the system better.
Here are my steps to setting up the system with fluid. Use a battery and send the pistons on the pump all the way to the bottom. full pump with fluid. attach to jacks. power pump to extend the jacks. put jack upside down thus fluid would be on the bottom and the air up top. Power pump to pull back fluid. thus the air will come first.
Then detach lines and refill fluid in pump, this should replace the air from cylinder. Reconnect, and then the pumps should work with little to no bleeding.
wish I had the time to do the repair for you. any person who works with copper/brass pipe can do this repair for you. the hardest part i can imagine for someone is the soldering if your not familiar with it. I just wanted to post this so anyone can have the system repaired without spend a lot to fix it. Plus I never like the manual adjustment screw modification. Also as you can see from the first post I repaired my system in 12/2012 and my friends last month. lol
my spoiler re-bleed is successfully going on 2.5 years. i still have the poster upthread "fixed wing kit" sittin in its box. where i expect it to stay lol
I just had my 996TT serviced at Porsche Center in Bangkok. Spoiler warning light showed and I have noticed that my right ram started leaking. Porsche recommended to change the whole set, including 2 rams and a pump. The whole set costs USD 3,000 in Thailand. Thanks to this thread and Keenanc1. I told them not to do anything with my spoiler. I will try to fix it myself. I will update soon.
I just had my 996TT serviced at Porsche Center in Bangkok. Spoiler warning light showed and I have noticed that my right ram started leaking. Porsche recommended to change the whole set, including 2 rams and a pump. The whole set costs USD 3,000 in Thailand. Thanks to this thread and Keenanc1. I told them not to do anything with my spoiler. I will try to fix it myself. I will update soon.
be sure to lay a big towel across the motor bay and the back cowl. Try not to mess with the microswitches. I took everything off the car into my workshop and used a 12v charger to cycle. The motor itself had a stuck brush, but got that freed up. Then used pure power steering stop leak as the refill fluid. Took some fiddling to get all 4 cylinders full, but you can do it. Microswitch flew apart, several times. Very delicate, like a Rolex. Haha. Works like a charm now. I used channel locks wrapped with painter tape to rotate cylinders at wing connection. No problem there. Good luck, let us know how it goes thanadit.
2002 Turbo - Basalt Black Metallic / 2003 Carrera 4S - Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 - Rust Red
be sure to lay a big towel across the motor bay and the back cowl. Try not to mess with the microswitches. I took everything off the car into my workshop and used a 12v charger to cycle. The motor itself had a stuck brush, but got that freed up. Then used pure power steering stop leak as the refill fluid. Took some fiddling to get all 4 cylinders full, but you can do it. Microswitch flew apart, several times. Very delicate, like a Rolex. Haha. Works like a charm now. I used channel locks wrapped with painter tape to rotate cylinders at wing connection. No problem there. Good luck, let us know how it goes thanadit.
2002 Turbo - Basalt Black Metallic / 2003 Carrera 4S - Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 - Rust Red
Thank you very much, DaveCarrera4, for your kind recomendation. I will make sure I have big towels before I fix it. Will update with pictures, probably in 2-3 weeks.
Just before I put the car in the garage for the winter; I started getting the dreaded warning light about the spoiler deployment failure. I noticed both sides were not extending all the way, with the right side lower than the left. I searched Rennlist and 6speed and read many of the threads about all the fixes and other repair options. I ended up liking Kcreager1's write-up best and decided to give it a try.
It's been a long winter hear in NH, so I was not in a big hurry. It still looks like winter outside, but I am getting cabin fever and need a Porsche fix, so this past weekend I went to the garage with Kcreager1's write-up in hand and disassembled the spoiler hydraulic system and refilled it.
Removing the cylinders and pump was pretty easy. I put everything on the work bench, tested it and then proceeded to refill or top off the cylinders and pump with Lucas Stop Leak Power Steering Fluid.
In hindsight, I think I should have diluted the Lucas Stop Leak with a regular less viscous power steering fluid or the Pentrosin CHF 11 S fluid that is recommended the Porsche Repair Manual. It took awhile to bleed the air out of the viscous Lucas Stop Leak fluid.
Before I refilled the system, the left side cylinder was extending about 2.5" and the right side cylinder was extending about 1.5" After filling and bleeding both cylinders extend a little over 3.25"
I put everything back in the car and the spoiler extends fully without the warning light.
I do notice that it seems to take longer for the cylinders to retract fully? I think this could be due to the higher viscosity fluid? Hopefully I won't get a warning light due to the slow retraction? I won't get a chance to road test for a least a month, still 12" of snow in the yard here.
Thanks to all on this forum for their excellent write-ups and comments, making the spoiler repair rather simple. I would rate it a 1.5 on a scale of 4.
Hopefully this fix will hold to a better option is available, maybe the electric rams that are beta testing?
I wouldn't use 100% lucas stop-leak fluid in the 996TT rear spoiler. That stuff is really really thick and may stress the pump too much (and the pump is $$$). Conversely, the Pentosin fluid seems thinner than water. I personally used a 50/50 Pentosin/Lucas mix and it has worked well so far.
I wouldn't use 100% lucas stop-leak fluid in the 996TT rear spoiler. That stuff is really really thick and may stress the pump too much (and the pump is $$$). Conversely, the Pentosin fluid seems thinner than water. I personally used a 50/50 Pentosin/Lucas mix and it has worked well so far. Dan
there is no "pump". Just double syringe like barrels. It can't be stressed per se. The other parts or seals will likely fail. We pulled one out of a beta tester's car last weekend and the "pump" literally fell apart once unbolted. It had leaked fluid down the inside of his lid and ruined the weather strip, possibly more. I think he's happy with his eRams. ;-)
Not sure if it is relevant anymore. but I fixed both of my leaky hydraulic rams this past weekend. bought seals from a local Hydraulic shop and few items from home depot. took 3 o-ring seals & 2 copper crush washers each side.
very very in-expensive.
FYI, if you plan on taking apart yours. word of advice after you remove the ring clips. take off the bigger ring clip on top first. remove the pieces that attach to the spoiler and then remove the smaller ring clip on the bottom. when you do remove the smaller clip. point the other end away from you and anyone else. I pointed mine inside a box (this was the second one I opened. LOL). The first one I was un-aware of what happens. took 5 mins to take apart and 2 hours searching for the missing parts. basically everything shoots out. There is a big spring that helps to lower the spoiler and keep it down. when released it is very violent.
I completed the repair on 12/15/12, I also have a warehouse where I park my cars. left my spoiler in the up position and will check back if it remains for a few days to verify the fix. didn't take any pictures of my process but plan on fixing my friends setup which is also leaking. Will take pictures then and post if needed.
Agree with others on the post at first they look like you cannot repair them but I was able to take apart, change seals and reassemble and my spoiler works.
Don’t like the manual spoiler fix as your spoiler stay up and as anyone knows. your spoiler can be removed very easy. and it's very expensive to replace.
My fix also leaves them where I can repair seals in future again for only the seal cost.
Oh yeah since I was already in repair mode, I changed the seals on the spoiler hydraulic motor. takes 6 larger orings. 3 on each side.
Just twist the rams and the spoiler pops right off the rams.
I have also fixed my Hydraulic cylinders for my cabro roof. Took 4 seals each side and misc stuff from home depot.
Both spoiler and top stop working, got fed up and figured why not try to repair them worst case if failed I am still gonna replace them so cost me nothing but time. and now I saved a lot on the repairs. Also got a quote from someone that repairs the roof hydraulic cylinders and figured if he can do it why can't I.
He also wanted my cylinders to replace as cores. and a few hundred dollars.
I spent nowhere close to his quote and repaired roof and spoiler.
HI,
great description you made. I am about to do it myself too. You mention having pictures of the procedure, any chance you can share those ?
anyone leaving their spoiler in the deployed position for any extended period of time is putting undue stress on the seals and system in general. they are not designed to be left "up" for very long. it will be a contributant to spoiler ram leakage and eventual failure
HI, great description you made. I am about to do it myself too. You mention having pictures of the procedure, any chance you can share those ? thanks !
anyone leaving their spoiler in the deployed position for any extended period of time is putting undue stress on the seals and system in general. they are not designed to be left "up" for very long. it will be a contributant to spoiler ram leakage and eventual failure
you are absolutely correct Mark. Ever try to pull up your wing without fluid in the Rams and hoses disconnected? The spring pressure is enormous. Up puts a lot of stress on the unrepairable seals in the permanently sealed rams. Designer (not Porsche) wanted wing to fail down. But the rams were designed as totally independent hydraulic fluid systems, so if one leaks, the wing is cocked down on one side only. Really a horrible over designed and over engineered system. Someone made a ton of money off of Porsche.
09-04-2013, 02:03 AM
bleeding/primin
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