Speed Limit Debate
06-02-2005, 04:06 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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06-02-2005, 04:34 PM
#2
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A few thoughts.........
I lived in or travelled to over 35 countries and nearly as many states. I've seen just about every type of traffic situation that you can imagine. I've even seen things that I never could have imagined. From my observation, the safest and most reasonable posted speed varies with: 1) the condition of the roads, bridges and infrastructure, 2) the conditions of the cars and trucks, and 3) the skill level and willingness to follow the rules by the drivers themselves.
Why is 75 safe in Arizona and ridiculous in Jamaica? See all 3 above.
Why is 120 safe in Germany and unsafe in Belgium? See 1 and 3 above.
Why is auto insurance twice as expensive in Belgium than it is in Switzerland?
Why is 85 safe in Montana and crazy in Brazil?
See my point? All that being said, I think that the speed limit in my home state of Illinois should be raised from 65 to 75. However, I'll still get passed by 20 something airheads in Kia's running 90 while talking on the cell phone or adjusting their makeup. If we want to go fast, we need to have the skills and discipline of most drivers in Germany. Anything less simply won't do.
.........it's only my opinion and i could be wrong.
I lived in or travelled to over 35 countries and nearly as many states. I've seen just about every type of traffic situation that you can imagine. I've even seen things that I never could have imagined. From my observation, the safest and most reasonable posted speed varies with: 1) the condition of the roads, bridges and infrastructure, 2) the conditions of the cars and trucks, and 3) the skill level and willingness to follow the rules by the drivers themselves.
Why is 75 safe in Arizona and ridiculous in Jamaica? See all 3 above.
Why is 120 safe in Germany and unsafe in Belgium? See 1 and 3 above.
Why is auto insurance twice as expensive in Belgium than it is in Switzerland?
Why is 85 safe in Montana and crazy in Brazil?
See my point? All that being said, I think that the speed limit in my home state of Illinois should be raised from 65 to 75. However, I'll still get passed by 20 something airheads in Kia's running 90 while talking on the cell phone or adjusting their makeup. If we want to go fast, we need to have the skills and discipline of most drivers in Germany. Anything less simply won't do.
.........it's only my opinion and i could be wrong.
06-02-2005, 04:55 PM
#3
Still plays with cars.
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Back in the days before the sefl serving safety ***** (Nader, Claybrook et al) and before they (the safety *****) got the feds involved in speed limits, highway speed limits were determined by the 85 th percentile method.
A highway would be opened and no speed limit posted. Sensors would capture the speeds and after 45 days (typically) engineers would determine the speed chosen by 85 percent of the drivers. That became the limit rounded to the nearest 5 MPH increment. If worked for years until the politicians and special interest groups got involved. As KPV pointed out, cars back then (60's and early 70's) were a lot less capable than they are today. If we went back to the 85th percentile method the limit on freeways would be 80 MPH or so.
A highway would be opened and no speed limit posted. Sensors would capture the speeds and after 45 days (typically) engineers would determine the speed chosen by 85 percent of the drivers. That became the limit rounded to the nearest 5 MPH increment. If worked for years until the politicians and special interest groups got involved. As KPV pointed out, cars back then (60's and early 70's) were a lot less capable than they are today. If we went back to the 85th percentile method the limit on freeways would be 80 MPH or so.
06-02-2005, 05:24 PM
#4
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IMHO, this debate goes right back to the attitude of the general populace towards driving.
When I worked in Germany, I was stunned to hear of the high costs in order to OBTAIN a driver's license. So their attitude is that driving is a privilege not to be abused. Here in North America, driving is seen as a God given right. And from right there, the attitudes and behaviors diverge. Then there is driver education here, which is laughable with its lack of training in real life situations. When I lived in the town of Oakville, Ontario (suburb of Toronto), there was a skid school that taught people how to drive into and out of a skid in low traction situations (the rigs they used were pretty cool). That training should be MANDATORY, especially for drivers in climates where wintry weather presents dangers on the public roads. It should be basic knowledge...
The driving discipline in Europe (except Italy and occasionally France) were so ingrained into the mentalities of the drivers, it came as second nature. I was overwhelmed when I saw a small car pull into the left lane to pass a bus, only to pull right again behind the bus, wait as another faster car passed in the passing lane, and then resume his own pass on the autobahn...have you ever observed anything even CLOSE to that level of road awareness, consideration and discipline on our highways?! I certainly have not.
Okay, I'll get off my soap box now...it's just this is one topic that ALWAYS gets my blood boiling because we have to share our highways and streets with inconsiderate and unaware idiots, especially when they are driving over-engined/underbraked/undersuspended ginormous SUVs all while talking on the cell phone and yelling at their kids in the back seat!!
When I worked in Germany, I was stunned to hear of the high costs in order to OBTAIN a driver's license. So their attitude is that driving is a privilege not to be abused. Here in North America, driving is seen as a God given right. And from right there, the attitudes and behaviors diverge. Then there is driver education here, which is laughable with its lack of training in real life situations. When I lived in the town of Oakville, Ontario (suburb of Toronto), there was a skid school that taught people how to drive into and out of a skid in low traction situations (the rigs they used were pretty cool). That training should be MANDATORY, especially for drivers in climates where wintry weather presents dangers on the public roads. It should be basic knowledge...
The driving discipline in Europe (except Italy and occasionally France) were so ingrained into the mentalities of the drivers, it came as second nature. I was overwhelmed when I saw a small car pull into the left lane to pass a bus, only to pull right again behind the bus, wait as another faster car passed in the passing lane, and then resume his own pass on the autobahn...have you ever observed anything even CLOSE to that level of road awareness, consideration and discipline on our highways?! I certainly have not.
Okay, I'll get off my soap box now...it's just this is one topic that ALWAYS gets my blood boiling because we have to share our highways and streets with inconsiderate and unaware idiots, especially when they are driving over-engined/underbraked/undersuspended ginormous SUVs all while talking on the cell phone and yelling at their kids in the back seat!!
06-02-2005, 05:39 PM
#5
There is no reason well-maintained, limited access roads can't have a speed limit of 80 MPH. While I could comfortably cruise at much higher speeds, I would be happy with 80 given the reality of the some of the heaps people drive and their driving abilities. Since most people drive this fast already, making it legal and perhaps, lessening the speed differentials on some of these roads would actually make them safer!
06-02-2005, 06:36 PM
#6
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Roy......calm down 
.
No seriously........I agree 100%......like you, have driven a fair amount in Germany and yes, it's the dif between a 'privelage' (that has value)..... and a perceived 'right' over here. That's the core problem........all the lousy drivers (and their vehicals) are the baggage that comes along with it. No matter what your speed is....they're out there. Shoot, I always feel safer on the track.
Bob, your 85th percentile method makes alot of sence........happens also to be NMA's position National Motorist Assoc. (speed limets) ....they are a great group BTW that deserves support (I'm not affiliated).
So Ken.......was the reason you wanted to get our blood boiling on this?
.No seriously........I agree 100%......like you, have driven a fair amount in Germany and yes, it's the dif between a 'privelage' (that has value)..... and a perceived 'right' over here. That's the core problem........all the lousy drivers (and their vehicals) are the baggage that comes along with it. No matter what your speed is....they're out there. Shoot, I always feel safer on the track.
Bob, your 85th percentile method makes alot of sence........happens also to be NMA's position National Motorist Assoc. (speed limets) ....they are a great group BTW that deserves support (I'm not affiliated).
So Ken.......was the reason you wanted to get our blood boiling on this?
Last edited by GreggT; 06-02-2005 at 07:02 PM.
06-02-2005, 07:02 PM
#7
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When American drivers are willing to be " stratefied " via lane status , i.e., trucks far right , " normal " flow always next to that lane , passing/ high speed only on innermost lane and drivers courteously /sheepishly pull to the right when an SL 65 or Turbo bares down on them with flashing headlights ....then ... 
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06-02-2005, 10:09 PM
#10
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More than the speed limit, it is the driving discipline and courtesy that needs radical revamping...
First, it is the driving culture and courtesy that needs serious work. Lane huggers sit in the passing lane on the nation's highways...and when a faster travelling car comes along many take the attitude "f**k u a**hole, I ain't moving"! Guess what, then we've got people zigging and zagging across lanes...single most frequent cause of accidents and road rage.
Second, then we have the cell-phone addicts often with a cup of coffee, cigarette, or make-up pad drifting first to one edge of the road and then another.
Third, we've got the oblivious lot...minivans and SUVs with underinflated tires that I personally attempt to stay clear off.
Fourth, trucks and other oversized vehicles that often hurtle down any lane on the highways for no other reason than to intimidate
I could go on, but suffice it to say that here in the US we lack a culture of road courtesy and traffic discipline...and hopes to fix that are slim to none!
First, it is the driving culture and courtesy that needs serious work. Lane huggers sit in the passing lane on the nation's highways...and when a faster travelling car comes along many take the attitude "f**k u a**hole, I ain't moving"! Guess what, then we've got people zigging and zagging across lanes...single most frequent cause of accidents and road rage.
Second, then we have the cell-phone addicts often with a cup of coffee, cigarette, or make-up pad drifting first to one edge of the road and then another.
Third, we've got the oblivious lot...minivans and SUVs with underinflated tires that I personally attempt to stay clear off.
Fourth, trucks and other oversized vehicles that often hurtle down any lane on the highways for no other reason than to intimidate
I could go on, but suffice it to say that here in the US we lack a culture of road courtesy and traffic discipline...and hopes to fix that are slim to none!
