mmm208

Well , I finally drove the Gt3. Not only did i drive it , but i drove it very hard and for a couple of miles. I would like to offer a full in depth review of the car since i really dont think anyone in here has fully opened one up yet since all the members here have brand new ones except watt. After driving the car i also think many car magazines did not properly describe the car very well at all. That disappoints me. I was going to buy one sight unseen based on all of the current hype going on.

First the good Stuff:

Exterior:
The car is the best looking 911 in history. Its presence in person is amazing. Even though the car has minor changes from a base 911 , the sum of its changed parts equal a greater whole. Very attractive front new bumper. Beatufull side skirts, Wheels are amazing and yellow brakes added to visuals. And lowering the car adds to it as well. I even like the wing. Very ,very nice 911. IMO nicer than a Twin Turbo.

Interior:
The interior had full leather and carbon shifter with electric seat option.
Clutch was super stiff (even compared to my M3). Radio was OK. Overall it felt exclusive and high quality. If your going to get the car i suggest getting full leather and carbon wheel.

Sound:
Yes it does engine sound very nice. Its what all porsches should sound like. Its not overbearing either. I loved it.

Handling:
I would like to first state that the car is in no way stiff at all . The people who say it has no body roll have not driven one or have perception problems. This car is softer than my 2003 M3 with 19's. Very surprised how everyone in this forum commented"Not for every day use" "good for track only" Trust me i drove the car several miles and it was super comfortable and on the soft side. It was actually quite nice IMO. I would actually stiffen the car up a tad.
I jerked the steering wheel back and forth quickly doing about 60 MPH and there was some very slight pendulum effect fron the tail(yes i know its rear engined , but i was expecting more from a gt3 car). My M3 does not exhibit any of that and is half the price . It does handle well and very stable in turns , its just a little less than i thought it should be. Car also is very light and you feel it in the front end when doing 120 mph. Doesnt feel 100% planted like my m3(my m3 is about 400 pounds heavier though), but still solid and very confident. Seating position was perfect and gave a nice overall sporty feel yet very very comfortable feeling.

Brakes:
PCCB brakes are cool concept but the brakes still felt numb. Doesnt quite bite as hard as my M3 and you need to really mash them to get them going. At one point i mashed them very hard coming to stop sign and the abs kicked in late as it skidded and then stopped . Strange?

Now here is the interesting Part:

Engine:
On first throttle take off i was surprised that there was huge lack in low end grunt and then surprised that it only pulls hard from 7000 to 8200. The only thing is that unless you reach 8200 rpms the car does not feel fast or exciting. Even when compared to a base 911. I know the car does 0-60 in 4.3 but thats from starting a standing position winding through the gears. When giving gas from lets say 50 mph in 2nd gear the car sags in power and only winds out towards the very end of the gear
btw 7000 and 8200 and your already going 85 mph. This is not satisfying and i was quite upset what porche had done . Im sure the 30-50 or 80 to 100 acceleration mph test would be very poor. I knew right away what they had done and it was a big mistake. They geared the final drive ratio too tall. You see the average car does about 60 to 65 mph a the end of 2nd gear. The gt3 does 85. That means its geared way!way! to tall. If they changed the final drive ratio the car would be faster than the turbo by far. It would also generate about 15% more torque which this car badly needs.
Think about it. its 381 hp and weighs about 350 pound less than a turbo. Its also only 2 wheel drive . This car should and could have been really great, but ends up getting ruined by a very poor choice in gearing . I wonder if one can change the final gear ratio in this car. It would be interesting to see the results. I wanted the car so bad , but i cannot buy a 109,000 car with this power flaw. It just does not deliver the power i expected. Its as if the porche engineers specifically did this not upset he 911 TT people.

Im backing out of the Gt3 and urge anyone not to buy the car unless you drive it. Watt was right all along.

If anyone can provide me with a way to change final gear ratio i might re-consider.

Rgds

MM

flatair

So it's the turbo!

mmm208

It could be . I have found a 2003 Seal Grey X50 Turbo with 7000 miles for 104,000 . Is that good? I hear the chip alone adds 120 hp for the x50.

GrantG

The GT3 was designed to change gearsets very easily. Many ratios are available.

mmm208

who do i call to find out abou ratios?

twisted

Glad to here that you were able to drive a GT3. Question for you .. you drove a GT3 to red line before the car was broken in?

Interesting that you feel the car has no power. I had a GT3 for three days then traded it in for a 996Turbo, which after three days I undid the deal on the turbo and have the GT3 back. I felt the time lag on the turbos to be very disconcerting when street driving and passing cars in traffic, having to wait for the power and then the timing of the pass because of the lag and then the cases of having to much to late during a pass did not help. Also the GT3 is very light in it's handling compared to the turbo's weight. Both of these are reason I went back for the GT3.

My GT3 currently has 920 miles on it and hopefully this weekend I'll hit 1000 mile and then I'll ramp up putting down the RPM to 8000. Can't wait.

A few things I have noticed about the GT3:

The dealers do not know that the tire pressures are different for this car compared to the other 996's, they are putting in around 36psi in the front and 44psi in the rear. Cold overpressure setting is 32 front and 39 rear. Driving the car with 36/44 is very hard/stiff ride and can be the cause to many saying how stiff the car is. I lowered the tire pressures the first day I had the GT3 to 32/39.

After the first several hundred miles my car feels to have broken in some and the ride quality is not as hard/stiff as it was. The GT3 has very little suspension travel before it's into the bump stops, because the car is so low. Part of this could be the bump stops are wearing/breaking in, not real sure if I like this, I may raise the height about 1/2" for more suspension travel.

Car is setup from Porsche with a bit of over-steer when one tries to balance power the car in the corners (neutral power, neither adding or removing power in the corners) the sway bars are set both front and rear, one hole in from full stiff. I have found that by moving the rear sway bar, one hole more from full stiff, so it's in the third hole from full stiff, sets the car into a more neutral balance when one neutral powers the car in the corner.

The GT3 is faster than my E46 M3 race car which had 365-370HP and a 3.91 rear gear. The GT3 reminds me a lot of my old M coupe race car that had a Dinan ISR kit (intercooled/supercharger), quick on the power, zippy, light, fast, smile factor, fun driver's car.

The GT3 needed an alignment which has helped but I believe the car is going to need to be corner weighted and aligned again with my weight in the car during both and at a 1/2 tank of gas.

PCCB's have small surface cracks that have been stated as normal by dealer and local PCNA Regional Tech.

PCCB's need some heat and a several hundred miles/time to break in, my rear rotors still do not look broken in.

The street/sport pad (yellow) from Porsche reminds of driving my race cars on the street with Pagid Orange pads on. I'm think seriously of getting a set of the comfort pads (Black) put on the car for the street.

This car get's many thumbs up from other drivers on the road, I can not believe it, they follow you, they pull up next to you at highway speeds and then you get this big smile from them followed by a big thumbs up! This never happed when I had the turbo.

Having fun with the car .. looking for that setup ;-)

mmm208

who do i call to find out abou ratios?

Oak

Try Paul Guard of Guard Gears maybe someone can give you contact info:

here is some info on gearing for the stock ratios:
Columns are gear, gear ratio, max rpm and max mph:
1, 3.82, 8200, 46
2, 2.15, 8200, 82
3, 1.56, 8200, 113
4, 1.21, 8200, 146
5, 1.00, 8000, 172
6, 0.85, 7500, 190

The gearing is very tall, to keep the car in the powerband you would have to be buzzing around 6K rpm.

If you switch to a 4.00 R&P you get the following:

1, 3.82, 8200, 40
2, 2.15, 8200, 71
3, 1.56, 8200, 97
4, 1.21, 8200, 125
5, 1.00, 8000, 148
6, 0.85, 8000, 174

The factory Cup car looks like this

1, 3.15, 8000, 47
2, 2.00, 8000, 74
3, 1.56, 8000, 95
4, 1.31, 8000, 113
5, 1.09, 8000, 136
6, 0.91, 8000, 163

mmm208

Does porche make any gears like a 4.0

im assuming 0-60 would be very quick on that ration.

how do i contact guard gears?

Oak

try a search on this board or the turbo board.

If you can't find it, I have it some where?

Sun Ra

paul guard is gears@gte.net.

to keep in the power band, he calculated a low rear and a lower set for me, lower than what oak shows with a top speed of 151 in 6th. you'll be shiftin' like you're stirring saltwater taffy, kinda like the VW GTi in the late 80's.

MetalSolid

MMM208,

dude, you had Turbo written all over you.

When I first drove the GT3 it actually felt slower than my stock '97 C4S - funny how perspectives change once you've put a few hundred miles on.

To anyone that's even slightly considering getting a Turbo, the GT3 is not for you.

LegoDoom

I know the turbo's not for me. I've looked into getting a GT3, but is it even worth it if I"m not going to track it?

ADOGNY

Nice to hear from someone who has actually owned both. It was harder for me to decide since I only drove a 996 TT once. That was when I was thinking of giving up my 993 TT for the new one and decided not to after the test drive. I didnt think the car felt "raw" or sporty enough for me and it felt slower than my 993 TT. This was strictly seat-of-the-pants feel, but that counts for a lot in driving pleasure. The GT3 on the other hand felt so responsive and immediately inspired me. The car felt quicker than either TT and the numbers out there in the world seem to prove that perception a reality.

I do not feel the car is flat at any point under 3000, with the tranny in the proper gear of course. Maybe you are just too comsumed by the whoosh and thrust once the turbo's hit - I do miss that but the GT3 is just an overall better performer in my eyes (Plus I own one..)

Adam

RR

mmm208,

You are right the car is not for you.
The car is for a "select-few" customers who know what they are looking for when they get into the car.

Its probably why they did not offer the car to NA the last time round.

To me it sounds like you really need an American V8, or something else that has tons of torque - see ZO6, CL55, SL55, M5, Cadillac Escalade, and the such.

It's not about torque its about race feel.
The M3 was never as fast as a GT3 around the ring, so the statement that your M3 "feels" more solid, has as much bearing as me saying that my Suburban feels solid in turns as well., which it does, but.....