MetalSolid

I think most people here are at peace with the fact that the GT3 is better than the M3 CSL.

Anyone read Dec issue of EVO?

brh986

Cheaper too, isn't it?

rockitman

M3 versus GT3, what a joke!!!

SteveD

Being from the US, I guess it's fair to assume that neither of you guys have driven both cars far less owned them.

The purpose of my post was to illustrate a few mistruths in the discussion, if it's more comfortable for you to stay in the dark then good luck to you.

There are no such black and white statements that can be so dismissive without also showing ignorance. I love the GT3 and could drive it well but it's not the only great car out there.

Mr. RS

Very well put Steve.

Now for the next Cat to be put amongst the pidgeons....

Whan are we going to see the first test putting a 360CS up against a GT3RS?

Now THAT would make for a lively forum!!

P.

Mr. RS

Just had a quick though.

Should the M3 be compared against the GT3 as it is the "Hot" version of the 3 series, the GT3 being the equivalent Porsche?

A fairer comparison would be to put the more "Track" oriented CSL up against the GT3 RS.

Again, wonder who will be the first?

P.

rockitman

Ex Squeeze me Better drink some twinnings tea and wake up chap...Both of us own GT3's, but apparently you don't own either...Talley Hoe!!!

1AS

Does the track change year-to-year? I know at our local tracks, winters can leave some corners bumpier and slower, but then occasional patching of an apex can add a foot of pavement, or adding speed bumps can subtract a bit of usable track. So, is it valid to compare one year's time to another time years later? Track times change morning to evening, and after rain washes off the rubber. It may never be possible to correctly dispute differences as little as a second or two, and at a track as large as the Ring, maybe spans as much as 3-5 seconds. Since I've never seen it, I don't know- so this is just curiosity speaking. AS

SteveD

You show your ignorance yet again RockitMan... If you read my original post you would realise I owned 'both' GT3 and CSL and are looking for an RS to replace the GT3, hence my relatively unbiased position.

As I said I love both cars, but I'm not blind enough to assume there are no other cars out there that are competitive. The CSL is most certainly a competitive prospect to the GT-3, but loses out in the areas that are most obvious. The GT-3 is slightly faster and given the hundreds of thousands of track miles GT-3s have undertaken around the world in championships and development miles the GT-3 has the slightly better sorted chassis particularly when adjusted, which you cant do on the CSL. Given BMW's starting point they've done very well to prodoce such a competitive car. I guarantee Porsche will have taken note and hence the urgency in releasing the GT3 RS so soon after the GT3 was launched.

Of more importance perhaps is considering how competitive the 360 CS and Gallardo will be in comparision. Last night on the british TV programme 'Top Gear' a Gallardo set a time in the wet around their test track 3 seconds faster than the GT3 had set, which in turn had been 0.8 seconds faster than the CSL. Sounds interesting to me.

GuyR

Don't forget that 1 second in an 8 minute 'ring lap is only is only 0.2%. Even with the same driver on the same day, they would be lucky to be consistent enough to put in their fastest possible lap at 100% of the cars limit, the 'fastest' lap could be at 99% or 100%, which are 5 seconds difference.

Add the factors of different drivers and different weather/temperature conditions and the lap times will all vary.

Also remember that the ring is a bumpy, twisty circuit and is not a power circuit. It is only one circuit, what are the times at Spa for instance............. (I've driven my GT2 at Spa and the 'ring and it's faster relative to other cars at Spa)

Power to weight ratio is relevant at lower speeds, but at higher speeds the acceleration is more determined by power/aerodynamic drag (CdA). Since the GT3 has more power and a lower frontal volume it will accelerate quicker at over say 80mph (although the reality is that acceleration is a continuous multi-variate algorithm, with CdA taking progressively more importance than weight as speed climbs).

Oh and the Gallardo was a real surprise on Top Gear, looked great and drove amazingly. Though at £120,000 it should be compared to a GT2 at a similar price and I know the GT2 has not been round the TG test-track.



Guy

Sun Ra

and how is Gallardo in the dry? perhaps 4wd helps in the wet, just a bit, eh??.

i seem to remember GT2 blew Gallardo into the weeds at the Ring, but i cant remember whether GT3's time was also faster than Gallardo - does someone have that time?

and shouldn't GT2/Gallardo be the relevant comparison [ie price point]?

SteveD

Seems like Audi (oops, sorry I mean Lamborghini) have developed a pretty sweet chassis on the Gallardo, although the consensus of opinion seems to be that it lacks character, something both GT2 and GT3 have in abundance. I'm sure that the GT3 would have clawed back some or all of the advantage in dry conditions but even the Gallardo was slip sliding around when they set the time.

I'm not sure the Gallardo is a natural adversary to the GT2 though, probably more suited to consideration by those more interested in the 996 TT.

rockitman

If your looking for your BMW daily affirmation, I think you are posting on the wrong board mate. The tone of this thread title and your careless response to me warranted my second response... I am sure the BMW touring coup is a nice car, but it certainly does not spank a GT3...Good Day!!!

Bill_C4S

Wait a sec...I thought Tiff was unimpressed with the Gallardo...decrying it for toeing the Audi party line, as in numb..uncommunicative.

At least that was his impression nigh on a month ago..post 24 hrs with an orange G whilst at the factory...

Greg A

He was. GuyR said it was a real surprise on "Top Gear". Tiff is on "5th Gear".

Greg A