First time out 996 GT3 track
11-19-2012, 06:18 PM
#17
Def. should have taken the time to set up your swaybar links. They're something that should be considered as "adjustable" as tire pressure. And they have equally important effect on the handling!
Mike
Mike
11-19-2012, 07:06 PM
#18
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I am set up so I can lay on ground and change sway bar settings in around 2 min. They make them adj for a reason but if you don't have enough rear toe in, all the sway adj won't help you at all.
Peter
11-19-2012, 11:42 PM
#19
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Day 2 went much better than Day 1. No 4 wheels off, not even 2 off. I did much more trail braking all the way to mid turn in and then gradually laid down the right pedel. Felt much more rotation going on esp on off camber turns but it was controlable. Felt the car slide out at same turn 8 on exit but this time I knew what to do and was prepped for the unwinding of the wheel.
Backed off the brakes and kept telling myself, "you are about 400 lbs lighter and have bigger calipers and rotors than the turbo" . Padgid yellows are shy of 50% front and about 70% rear with a fresh motul flush, and they were really stopping the car. I had to make adjustments and just trust that the car would not want to slide so far as the turbo would. I began to trust the tool, hence it inspired more confidence.
The second of two sessions was around 5:15 pm and dusk began to set. A rythum was being set and it felt really good. I began to realize the very sensitive inputs and reactions of how the car felt as I just lifted the right pedel or just touched the brake pedel and of course the steering feeling so light and nimble. On purpose, I left my gloves in the boot and chose to drive with bear hands so I could focus on removal of the vise grip and it worked. A little this way, a little that way and by the last 3 laps it felt as the car and I were skiing down hill and sliding out of the turns. Amazing!
Today made me forget selling my beloved 997.2 TTS, I made the right choice. May try and go out again tomorrow and set the rear bar to 1 click from full stiff and leave the front alone. Though it sounds like I might not have enough rear toe in? I gave my tech the specs in mm and I think he had to transfer them into degrees but I will have a look at the printout he gets from the machien in the am.
Today, I felt like I could handle a bit more dialed in oversteer from the rear sway, a tad bit of push was noted but seemed to go away with the trail braking. Thanks for all the support! No where near where I would like to be, but one step better than where I began.
Tom
Backed off the brakes and kept telling myself, "you are about 400 lbs lighter and have bigger calipers and rotors than the turbo" . Padgid yellows are shy of 50% front and about 70% rear with a fresh motul flush, and they were really stopping the car. I had to make adjustments and just trust that the car would not want to slide so far as the turbo would. I began to trust the tool, hence it inspired more confidence.
The second of two sessions was around 5:15 pm and dusk began to set. A rythum was being set and it felt really good. I began to realize the very sensitive inputs and reactions of how the car felt as I just lifted the right pedel or just touched the brake pedel and of course the steering feeling so light and nimble. On purpose, I left my gloves in the boot and chose to drive with bear hands so I could focus on removal of the vise grip and it worked. A little this way, a little that way and by the last 3 laps it felt as the car and I were skiing down hill and sliding out of the turns. Amazing!
Today made me forget selling my beloved 997.2 TTS, I made the right choice. May try and go out again tomorrow and set the rear bar to 1 click from full stiff and leave the front alone. Though it sounds like I might not have enough rear toe in? I gave my tech the specs in mm and I think he had to transfer them into degrees but I will have a look at the printout he gets from the machien in the am.
Today, I felt like I could handle a bit more dialed in oversteer from the rear sway, a tad bit of push was noted but seemed to go away with the trail braking. Thanks for all the support! No where near where I would like to be, but one step better than where I began.
Tom
11-20-2012, 02:44 AM
#20
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So I asked my Ptech to do the following on Toe:
Front Axle:
Toe total: +5'
toe difference at 20 degree Lock: -1degree20' +/- 30'
Rear Axle:
Toe total: 35' +/- 2'
Max toe difference, left/right: 5'
What I got:
Front Axle:
Left .05 degree Right .00 degree
total toe .34 degrees
Rear Axle:
Left .08 degree Right .09 degree
total toe .17 degrees
Is that what I should have?
Front Axle:
Toe total: +5'
toe difference at 20 degree Lock: -1degree20' +/- 30'
Rear Axle:
Toe total: 35' +/- 2'
Max toe difference, left/right: 5'
What I got:
Front Axle:
Left .05 degree Right .00 degree
total toe .34 degrees
Rear Axle:
Left .08 degree Right .09 degree
total toe .17 degrees
Is that what I should have?
11-20-2012, 02:54 AM
#21
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Scratch the above, I was reading what I had on another car:
What I requested stays the same but what I got was this:
Front Axle:
Left .08 degrees Right .08 Toe degrees
total toe .00 degrees
Rear Axle:
Left .25 degrees Right .27 degrees
Total Toe .52 degrees
Is this what I should have?
What I requested stays the same but what I got was this:
Front Axle:
Left .08 degrees Right .08 Toe degrees
total toe .00 degrees
Rear Axle:
Left .25 degrees Right .27 degrees
Total Toe .52 degrees
Is this what I should have?
11-20-2012, 05:04 AM
#22
Tom you really have to take everything you learned from the 996TT and shelve it. The suspension geometry, pickup points, and lack of weight all combine to change the setup. I remember we used to set up my monster 996TT with ZERO front toe and about 1/16th inch total toe in at the rear. We also used more camber front and rear (-3.0 front and -2.6 rear) most times.
You have all the right parts under that car to make it sing. The RSS bits will certainly go a long way to dialing it in. Once you're there, you'll understand all the "rage" about the 6GT3 and why you won't miss the boost of the 996TT. The 6GT3 really does become somewhat of a momentum car.
Sounds like you're going to need to go back to the shop and get more toe in the rear to about .15 degrees or 2mm. Then re-set your toe links. You can also do this at the track with a pair of simple Toe plates, four squares of linolium with wd-40 sprayed on the "slick" sides and two exact length tape measures (Longacre makes a good pair). You're talking less than $100 in "tools" to be self sufficient. Find a level surface and go to town. Man I wish we lived closer to each other. I could come out to the track and give you a hand.
Mike
You have all the right parts under that car to make it sing. The RSS bits will certainly go a long way to dialing it in. Once you're there, you'll understand all the "rage" about the 6GT3 and why you won't miss the boost of the 996TT. The 6GT3 really does become somewhat of a momentum car.
Sounds like you're going to need to go back to the shop and get more toe in the rear to about .15 degrees or 2mm. Then re-set your toe links. You can also do this at the track with a pair of simple Toe plates, four squares of linolium with wd-40 sprayed on the "slick" sides and two exact length tape measures (Longacre makes a good pair). You're talking less than $100 in "tools" to be self sufficient. Find a level surface and go to town. Man I wish we lived closer to each other. I could come out to the track and give you a hand.
Mike
11-20-2012, 08:28 AM
#23
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Scratch the above, I was reading what I had on another car:
What I requested stays the same but what I got was this:
Front Axle:
Left .08 degrees (0.5 mins, correct) Right .08 Toe degrees
total toe .00 degrees (if your toe is .08 per side, total must be .16deg or 10mins which is good)
Rear Axle:
Left .25 degrees (or 15mins, good) Right .27 degrees
Total Toe .52 degrees (or 31 mins, good)
Should really work in minutes, with front total of 8minutes positive (toe in) and rear of total 30mins positive (toe in) later you could try less toe up front depending on drive style.
What I requested stays the same but what I got was this:
Front Axle:
Left .08 degrees (0.5 mins, correct) Right .08 Toe degrees
total toe .00 degrees (if your toe is .08 per side, total must be .16deg or 10mins which is good)
Rear Axle:
Left .25 degrees (or 15mins, good) Right .27 degrees
Total Toe .52 degrees (or 31 mins, good)
Should really work in minutes, with front total of 8minutes positive (toe in) and rear of total 30mins positive (toe in) later you could try less toe up front depending on drive style.
11-20-2012, 08:29 AM
#24
Race Car
If this is what you've got in the rear you are absolutely fine. The .08 you previously listed per side in the rear would cause the car to rotate much more. .25 should provide a good bit of stability on even the bumpiest surfaces. I run .20-.22 per side on my car.
11-20-2012, 10:03 AM
#25
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Tom you really have to take everything you learned from the 996TT and shelve it. The suspension geometry, pickup points, and lack of weight all combine to change the setup. I remember we used to set up my monster 996TT with ZERO front toe and about 1/16th inch total toe in at the rear. We also used more camber front and rear (-3.0 front and -2.6 rear) most times.
You have all the right parts under that car to make it sing. The RSS bits will certainly go a long way to dialing it in. Once you're there, you'll understand all the "rage" about the 6GT3 and why you won't miss the boost of the 996TT. The 6GT3 really does become somewhat of a momentum car.
Sounds like you're going to need to go back to the shop and get more toe in the rear to about .15 degrees or 2mm. Then re-set your toe links. You can also do this at the track with a pair of simple Toe plates, four squares of linolium with wd-40 sprayed on the "slick" sides and two exact length tape measures (Longacre makes a good pair). You're talking less than $100 in "tools" to be self sufficient. Find a level surface and go to town. Man I wish we lived closer to each other. I could come out to the track and give you a hand.
Mike
You have all the right parts under that car to make it sing. The RSS bits will certainly go a long way to dialing it in. Once you're there, you'll understand all the "rage" about the 6GT3 and why you won't miss the boost of the 996TT. The 6GT3 really does become somewhat of a momentum car.
Sounds like you're going to need to go back to the shop and get more toe in the rear to about .15 degrees or 2mm. Then re-set your toe links. You can also do this at the track with a pair of simple Toe plates, four squares of linolium with wd-40 sprayed on the "slick" sides and two exact length tape measures (Longacre makes a good pair). You're talking less than $100 in "tools" to be self sufficient. Find a level surface and go to town. Man I wish we lived closer to each other. I could come out to the track and give you a hand.
Mike
11-20-2012, 11:59 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
Tom
As others have said your rear toe is fine @ .50 total toe in. Nobody I know who tracks GT3's runs front toe in. You want either 0 toe, my preference, or slight toe out.
Peter
As others have said your rear toe is fine @ .50 total toe in. Nobody I know who tracks GT3's runs front toe in. You want either 0 toe, my preference, or slight toe out.
Peter
11-20-2012, 01:27 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
There is a difference between a new Turbo and a 996 GT3. It took me a long time to get comfortable coming from a 996TT to the 996 GT3 -- I was afraid of the GT3 initially and needed around 9 track days before I was faster in the 996GT3. You have a lot of security aids with the all-wheel drive and the electronics in the turbo. The 997TT is even more removed than the 996TT - faster and easier to drive.
One of the most important items with the 996GT3 is the alignment which sounds like you have that in order. Yes, you can get things like rear-toe links and other suspension bits, but the focus should be just drive the car and have fun. With seat time you will become one with the car.
One of the most important items with the 996GT3 is the alignment which sounds like you have that in order. Yes, you can get things like rear-toe links and other suspension bits, but the focus should be just drive the car and have fun. With seat time you will become one with the car.
11-20-2012, 02:04 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
OP- if it makes u feel abit better I spun 6 times my first weekend on track in the 6gt3 : ). Come into pregrid the blackflag man says "wtf?- two spins in one lap!!!". Mike
11-20-2012, 02:05 PM
#29
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sway adjusted
Ok, thanks for all the help! I tracked a 996tt for the record even though I owned a 997.2 ttS for a year as my dd.
I just for the first time adjusted my rear sway bar and took her to one click from full hard which was only one click stiffer from where it was. I owe big thanks as always to Mikelly and Himself for a walk thru. Took me an hour with lifting the rear and removal of back tires and the adjustment, ok maybe 1.5 hours with putting it all back together. My local tech said to torque to 48 ft/lbs which I did.
Now for day 3 and see how the change has affected things!
Tom
I just for the first time adjusted my rear sway bar and took her to one click from full hard which was only one click stiffer from where it was. I owe big thanks as always to Mikelly and Himself for a walk thru. Took me an hour with lifting the rear and removal of back tires and the adjustment, ok maybe 1.5 hours with putting it all back together. My local tech said to torque to 48 ft/lbs which I did.
Now for day 3 and see how the change has affected things!
Tom
11-20-2012, 02:06 PM
#30
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It is all coming together slowly and most importantly, safely and with a TON OF FUN! STARTING TO LOVE THIS CAR!