My Porsche Sport Driving School experience
10-25-2012, 11:55 PM
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My Porsche Sport Driving School experience
Ok folks here is my report back from the Porsche Sport Driving School Masters course. The euphoria has only now after 24 hours upon return home begun to wear off. I was a bit nervous because I skipped the first course offered by them. There were two brothers from Finland who owned cars like Turbo S, GT2RS and Carrera GT and who had run tracks such as the “the ring” and were fast drivers. They too skipped the first class and this was their first time to run the course at Barber Motorsports.
The first session in the 991 CS we did a lead follow with Hurley himself and the Finland Brothers and when I was behind Hurley in the Turbo I hung with him fairly well but was taking the track in. When we would do a rotation and I was last they would pull on me by up to 10 car lengths. My ego pretty much was checked several times with those guys as towards the end of the session I hear Hurley say, over the loud speaker in all the cars, “ok guys, let’s let everyone catch up”.
In between two great sessions with other “top notch instructors”, we drove the 991 CS on a wet skid pad that was like being on ICE, making it push and oversteer in a figure 8. We also did auto X in the new Boxter which I had never done Auto X. The theme of this entire 2 day course from what I could tell what TRAIL BRAKING. It was a new introduction for me and by the sounds of it to all those who had been to the first class where I think they basically teach you to brake straight, let the car settle and then get on the power at mid corner. We did many exercises in trail braking in Cayman’s and boxters and of course the new 991 C2S which was all new to me.
The next session was in a Panamera GTS which I think had PDCC, PTV and definitely had PCCB’s. Holy Moly that car was pretty incredible around the course with PDK. The brakes made the car feel as though it weighed 3k lbs and I could not believe I was in a large sedan.
At some point we had instructors ride with us in the 991 and wouldn’t you know who I get? Mr. Hurley in the passenger seat. I was a little embarrassed when I did a less than smooth heal and toe and heard the words “sorry bout that” fall out of my mouth. At the end he said good driving Tom, nice job.
I had the pleasure of speaking with a guy who heads up the maintenance among other things for the school. I asked him what happens to all the cars when they are done with them? He told me they are sold with a disclaimer saying that they were PSDS cars and there is a discount attached. I my memory is right, he said something like 1% off dealer invoice and and additional 1% off each 1k miles on the car at the time of sale. I said, surely you guys do an accelerated maint schedule on these cars due to the nature of what they are put through? He said no, actually they get Mobil 1 at either every 12 mos. or a certain mileage for the car which I think was 15k miles whichever comes first. Wow! I was in shock about that, but he assured me that Mobil 1 does the job.
I then said, well how about the brake fluids, are you using a high temp fluid or changing the fluid after each 2 day event? Keep in mind, I think there were 25 drivers in my 2 day course and we did something like 2-3 sessions per day in groups of 10-12 drivers that revolved while other drivers were doing other activities so the cars were being driven pretty much nonstop each day. He said we flush the oem fluid one time per year and don’t need to bleed the calipers unless we know for a fact that a driver cooked the fluid. Ok, well how about race pads, do you use them, I asked? No OEM pads he said.
I will come back to this one in a bit. The tires are 20” and we were told to watch the pressures and in all the cars the TPMS screen was lit up at all times. Pretty much every time I got into a 991, the screen would read something like 45 front and 52 rear, I thought that was kinda high but what do I know since I don’t run 20’s on any of my cars and certainly not my track car who’s street tire hot track pressures don’t exceed 38-39.
So now it is day 2 and around 75 degrees in the late am and I have run the track in my mind visualizing it several times the night before while in bed and the morning of the 2nd day prior to getting out of bed. I am feeling pretty confident about the course and I am ready to drive fast and smooth. A session had just finished prior to us going out on the track so the cars, tires and brakes are warm/hot. I go out there now as an “open lap” session where we can pass and are not following instructors. I take it easy the first 2 laps and then get on it. As I come off one of the straights and begin to enter the chicane I go for my brakes and guess what? They are super soft such that I can’t make my turn in and drive off into the grass. I get the black flag and tell the instructor what happened. He asks me if I had pumped the pedal prior to going out to make sure I had brakes and I tell him no. He says pump the pedal now and go back out but not so hot and let them cool down a bit and when you feel they have come back you can resume your pace. I go out and after a straight which is turn 5 the hair pin the pedal completely drops to the floor and so I drive off once again into the lawn and circle back to safely get on the track. About that time it was time to do a cool down lap and pit.
I spoke with several instructors and they told me I was overdriving the brakes and possibly the car since it has PTV and traction control and with all that sliding and late braking things get hot. The original guy I spoke with about the maint schedules for the cars came up to me and said “ok, now I know why you were asking me about the fluids and pads. What kind of set up to you run?” I explained, that I run Motul and flush every 6 mos. and bleed the calipers after every 6-8 sessions. The general consensus from the instructors was, “these are street cars, not race cars and you have to be aware not to overdrive them”. Made sense I suppose. My only issue was that for the next two sessions with the 991, I had no confidence in the brakes and hence after the first 1/3 of each session I felt big time fade and as the day warmed up the tires got pretty greasy.
Now onto my Praise report! I finally got to drive a 997.2 GT3 and it had PCCB’s but I could not opt into Sport mode. Still the car was amazing and for an entire session I was able to get my confidence back! Brakes were there, CHECK. Power was there, CHECK. Suspension was there, CHECK. It made me wish I had an extra 20-25k to have been able to buy a 997 GT3 instead of a 996 GT3(keep in mind, I have yet to take my new to me 6/3 to the track so I may take it all back once I do). Also, I have to think that it would have been a 997 not 997.2 3 that I could have bought for the extra money if I had it. Boy o Boy the sound of the motor and the handling and chirping of the tires when going out of 2nd into 3rd was pretty cool.
Second to the gt3 for me was the new Boxter with PDK. Man that car was awesome on the course and no brake fade but was pretty darn quick. Ok, I will humbly say that to my extreme shock and joy, at the closing they announced some winners of an auto X competition that they had. My team came in last but we had a good time. Then they say the driver with the fastest Auto X lap was “””””ME”””””! Again, never ever have done auto X so not expecting this at all. Funny thing is that that the next lap after the fastest lap, I took out most of the outside cones and some of the inside cones of one of the turns he he he.
Finally, I have to say that ALL the instructors were FIRST CLASS dudes and extremely friendly and helpful. Would I go again? Yes! Next time it will be the Masters Plus and then maybe one day if I am lucky and super extra nice to my wifey the GT3 cup car class! I would recommend it to anyone and the food was great and I met a ton of very nice folks that share a love for driving and Porsches.
The first session in the 991 CS we did a lead follow with Hurley himself and the Finland Brothers and when I was behind Hurley in the Turbo I hung with him fairly well but was taking the track in. When we would do a rotation and I was last they would pull on me by up to 10 car lengths. My ego pretty much was checked several times with those guys as towards the end of the session I hear Hurley say, over the loud speaker in all the cars, “ok guys, let’s let everyone catch up”.
In between two great sessions with other “top notch instructors”, we drove the 991 CS on a wet skid pad that was like being on ICE, making it push and oversteer in a figure 8. We also did auto X in the new Boxter which I had never done Auto X. The theme of this entire 2 day course from what I could tell what TRAIL BRAKING. It was a new introduction for me and by the sounds of it to all those who had been to the first class where I think they basically teach you to brake straight, let the car settle and then get on the power at mid corner. We did many exercises in trail braking in Cayman’s and boxters and of course the new 991 C2S which was all new to me.
The next session was in a Panamera GTS which I think had PDCC, PTV and definitely had PCCB’s. Holy Moly that car was pretty incredible around the course with PDK. The brakes made the car feel as though it weighed 3k lbs and I could not believe I was in a large sedan.
At some point we had instructors ride with us in the 991 and wouldn’t you know who I get? Mr. Hurley in the passenger seat. I was a little embarrassed when I did a less than smooth heal and toe and heard the words “sorry bout that” fall out of my mouth. At the end he said good driving Tom, nice job.
I had the pleasure of speaking with a guy who heads up the maintenance among other things for the school. I asked him what happens to all the cars when they are done with them? He told me they are sold with a disclaimer saying that they were PSDS cars and there is a discount attached. I my memory is right, he said something like 1% off dealer invoice and and additional 1% off each 1k miles on the car at the time of sale. I said, surely you guys do an accelerated maint schedule on these cars due to the nature of what they are put through? He said no, actually they get Mobil 1 at either every 12 mos. or a certain mileage for the car which I think was 15k miles whichever comes first. Wow! I was in shock about that, but he assured me that Mobil 1 does the job.
I then said, well how about the brake fluids, are you using a high temp fluid or changing the fluid after each 2 day event? Keep in mind, I think there were 25 drivers in my 2 day course and we did something like 2-3 sessions per day in groups of 10-12 drivers that revolved while other drivers were doing other activities so the cars were being driven pretty much nonstop each day. He said we flush the oem fluid one time per year and don’t need to bleed the calipers unless we know for a fact that a driver cooked the fluid. Ok, well how about race pads, do you use them, I asked? No OEM pads he said.
I will come back to this one in a bit. The tires are 20” and we were told to watch the pressures and in all the cars the TPMS screen was lit up at all times. Pretty much every time I got into a 991, the screen would read something like 45 front and 52 rear, I thought that was kinda high but what do I know since I don’t run 20’s on any of my cars and certainly not my track car who’s street tire hot track pressures don’t exceed 38-39.
So now it is day 2 and around 75 degrees in the late am and I have run the track in my mind visualizing it several times the night before while in bed and the morning of the 2nd day prior to getting out of bed. I am feeling pretty confident about the course and I am ready to drive fast and smooth. A session had just finished prior to us going out on the track so the cars, tires and brakes are warm/hot. I go out there now as an “open lap” session where we can pass and are not following instructors. I take it easy the first 2 laps and then get on it. As I come off one of the straights and begin to enter the chicane I go for my brakes and guess what? They are super soft such that I can’t make my turn in and drive off into the grass. I get the black flag and tell the instructor what happened. He asks me if I had pumped the pedal prior to going out to make sure I had brakes and I tell him no. He says pump the pedal now and go back out but not so hot and let them cool down a bit and when you feel they have come back you can resume your pace. I go out and after a straight which is turn 5 the hair pin the pedal completely drops to the floor and so I drive off once again into the lawn and circle back to safely get on the track. About that time it was time to do a cool down lap and pit.
I spoke with several instructors and they told me I was overdriving the brakes and possibly the car since it has PTV and traction control and with all that sliding and late braking things get hot. The original guy I spoke with about the maint schedules for the cars came up to me and said “ok, now I know why you were asking me about the fluids and pads. What kind of set up to you run?” I explained, that I run Motul and flush every 6 mos. and bleed the calipers after every 6-8 sessions. The general consensus from the instructors was, “these are street cars, not race cars and you have to be aware not to overdrive them”. Made sense I suppose. My only issue was that for the next two sessions with the 991, I had no confidence in the brakes and hence after the first 1/3 of each session I felt big time fade and as the day warmed up the tires got pretty greasy.
Now onto my Praise report! I finally got to drive a 997.2 GT3 and it had PCCB’s but I could not opt into Sport mode. Still the car was amazing and for an entire session I was able to get my confidence back! Brakes were there, CHECK. Power was there, CHECK. Suspension was there, CHECK. It made me wish I had an extra 20-25k to have been able to buy a 997 GT3 instead of a 996 GT3(keep in mind, I have yet to take my new to me 6/3 to the track so I may take it all back once I do). Also, I have to think that it would have been a 997 not 997.2 3 that I could have bought for the extra money if I had it. Boy o Boy the sound of the motor and the handling and chirping of the tires when going out of 2nd into 3rd was pretty cool.
Second to the gt3 for me was the new Boxter with PDK. Man that car was awesome on the course and no brake fade but was pretty darn quick. Ok, I will humbly say that to my extreme shock and joy, at the closing they announced some winners of an auto X competition that they had. My team came in last but we had a good time. Then they say the driver with the fastest Auto X lap was “””””ME”””””! Again, never ever have done auto X so not expecting this at all. Funny thing is that that the next lap after the fastest lap, I took out most of the outside cones and some of the inside cones of one of the turns he he he.
Finally, I have to say that ALL the instructors were FIRST CLASS dudes and extremely friendly and helpful. Would I go again? Yes! Next time it will be the Masters Plus and then maybe one day if I am lucky and super extra nice to my wifey the GT3 cup car class! I would recommend it to anyone and the food was great and I met a ton of very nice folks that share a love for driving and Porsches.
10-26-2012, 01:36 PM
#4
I posted earliier, but for some reason it didn't take.
Sounds like an overall good experience, but also sounds like it was geared more towards the street driver who doesn't take advantage of PCA's DE program.
I'm pretty surprised about the brake situation and their explanation to you, but that also leads to my comment above.
Glad you had a good time and got to sample a number of platforms. I am a huge fan of the new 2013 boxter and could see owning one as a dailydriver.
Mike
Sounds like an overall good experience, but also sounds like it was geared more towards the street driver who doesn't take advantage of PCA's DE program.
I'm pretty surprised about the brake situation and their explanation to you, but that also leads to my comment above.
Glad you had a good time and got to sample a number of platforms. I am a huge fan of the new 2013 boxter and could see owning one as a dailydriver.
Mike
10-26-2012, 01:37 PM
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10-26-2012, 01:43 PM
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I posted earliier, but for some reason it didn't take.
Sounds like an overall good experience, but also sounds like it was geared more towards the street driver who doesn't take advantage of PCA's DE program.
I'm pretty surprised about the brake situation and their explanation to you, but that also leads to my comment above.
Glad you had a good time and got to sample a number of platforms. I am a huge fan of the new 2013 boxter and could see owning one as a dailydriver.
Mike
Sounds like an overall good experience, but also sounds like it was geared more towards the street driver who doesn't take advantage of PCA's DE program.
I'm pretty surprised about the brake situation and their explanation to you, but that also leads to my comment above.
Glad you had a good time and got to sample a number of platforms. I am a huge fan of the new 2013 boxter and could see owning one as a dailydriver.
Mike
I thought about you alot when it came to the brake pad, fluid and regular flushing and bleeding cycles. No doubt if I had not learned so much from you with all your DIY's and phone conversations that this was bound to happen to me in the TT years ago.
I think not until you get to the Masters plus 3 day course or GT3 cup car course does the focus head towards folks that do multiple DE's per year and drive cars that are more prepped for the demand we put on them.
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10-28-2012, 10:18 AM
#9
Tom, You're getting into Driver's Coaching $$ there. You ever considered one? You'd get a lot of top shelf coaching for that coin.
Mike
Mike
10-28-2012, 06:15 PM
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Where would I investigate into this coaching? Not for today but down the road?
I know the instructors I met, most of them pro drivers all do it and two were actually gone by mid day the second day for that reason.
10-28-2012, 06:27 PM
#11
Congrats on the great experience! And thanks for the report.
As for coaches, there are a lot of them available. Next time I see you we can chat about the choices you can select from, the cost and what to expect. I've had Pat Long (twice), Seth Thomas, Cory Friedman, Jason Hart (twice as well)! Dave Scott and a couple other hotshoes. IMO, you should really consider Dave Scott - he's local and a great instructor. Coaching will reduce the leaning curve pretty dramatically. Hell, I'll sit in your car for free! Lol.
-td
As for coaches, there are a lot of them available. Next time I see you we can chat about the choices you can select from, the cost and what to expect. I've had Pat Long (twice), Seth Thomas, Cory Friedman, Jason Hart (twice as well)! Dave Scott and a couple other hotshoes. IMO, you should really consider Dave Scott - he's local and a great instructor. Coaching will reduce the leaning curve pretty dramatically. Hell, I'll sit in your car for free! Lol.
-td
10-28-2012, 06:45 PM
#12
Tom, You just got your answer in "your" area. Seek out TD and chat with him. Driving coaches are far better investment for you at this point, expecially given the responses you got about "brakes".
Mike
Mike
10-28-2012, 06:59 PM
#13
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Awesome report Tom,
I was able to do the Porsche school a long time ago with my dad when we were vintage racing an old 911 of his. Just a wealth of info there that's for sure.
Recently I have been to Bob Bondourants 3 day advanced road racing course . Another very good option in driving schools. Basically, any schooling from a competent instructor can be extremely helpful.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I was able to do the Porsche school a long time ago with my dad when we were vintage racing an old 911 of his. Just a wealth of info there that's for sure.
Recently I have been to Bob Bondourants 3 day advanced road racing course . Another very good option in driving schools. Basically, any schooling from a competent instructor can be extremely helpful.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
10-29-2012, 11:05 AM
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Congrats on the great experience! And thanks for the report.
As for coaches, there are a lot of them available. Next time I see you we can chat about the choices you can select from, the cost and what to expect. I've had Pat Long (twice), Seth Thomas, Cory Friedman, Jason Hart (twice as well)! Dave Scott and a couple other hotshoes. IMO, you should really consider Dave Scott - he's local and a great instructor. Coaching will reduce the leaning curve pretty dramatically. Hell, I'll sit in your car for free! Lol.
-td
As for coaches, there are a lot of them available. Next time I see you we can chat about the choices you can select from, the cost and what to expect. I've had Pat Long (twice), Seth Thomas, Cory Friedman, Jason Hart (twice as well)! Dave Scott and a couple other hotshoes. IMO, you should really consider Dave Scott - he's local and a great instructor. Coaching will reduce the leaning curve pretty dramatically. Hell, I'll sit in your car for free! Lol.
-td
I know Dave Scott, great guy who I have not seen in a while but last time was at the NARRA Viper days.
