SleepRM3

What will it cost to maintain a 2004/2005 GT3 for an owner that will drive the car 7500 miles per year with 10 to 20 track days per season?

Is the RMS leak still present with the GT3's GT1 engine block?

What do you pack to the track in the GT3?

Can a spare front and rear wheel/tire combo fit in the rear cargo area?

Are an extra set of wheels/tires worth considering?

What are your thoughts on the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups vs the Pilot Sport 2s (stock tires)?

elh0102

I travel to the track with a torque wrench, one socket for the wheel bolts, and a AAA card. If I start adding, I would soon need a trailer, so I don't.

Full size jack is possible, but be careful in packing it. They make nasty missles when bouncing around the interior. If I have to jack my car at the track, something is wrong, and I borrow a good floor jack.

I routinely carry a Porsche collapsible spare, and a small BMW jack kit. I don't like the flat tire repair goo that comes with the car, and it works on only certain types of damage anyway.

I have the Euro GT3 fixed back seats in my car, so getting anything more than the torque wrench back there is a challenge (tip, carry soft luggage). I have to use a floor mop to wash the inside of the rear window; just can't get back there. If you maintain reclining seats, I think you could get the two tires back there (might require having the steering wheel in your chest however). I once drove home from the track in a 997S with a full size rear wheel/tire in the right side rear, and that car had rear seats. The right front seat had to be about full forward, and my limited luggage was a tight fit. Obviously, a passenger would need to be small, flexible, and very accommodating. I have considered putting the right-side OE reclining seat back in the car, although that would look pretty dorky. I just had not thought of giving up the rear space for anything larger than you can squeeze between the seats (which excludes yours truly, thus the mop).

Some have RMS leaks, just have to inspect.

LSD depends on use. My '05 had only 7K street miles on it. At 12K, the LSD still works fine. But, I am relatively easy on equipment.

I haven't found the alignment to be especially difficult to maintain. I added adjustable rear toe links, as rear bump steer is a rather common problem. If you lower the car much, you will need to get the bump-steer adjustable type. I left mine at the factory ride height settings.

I use the Toyo R888 on track, and like them very much, drive to the track on them. No experience with MPSC, but reports are very conflicting on satisfaction with them (now there's a surprise). My car had the PS2 tires on it, and they were awful. Whether due to getting hard with age or what, don't know, but the traction level was low, and no communication when giving up. I've had these tires on other cars and liked them, so I have no explanation, unless it was the compound deterioration of tires four years old, although the car had been garaged.

Cost of maintenance with your usage, I would guess about $4K a year, plus tires. As you will find, certain aspects of GT3 ownership are challenging. If you trailer the car, life can be much easier. I decided to maintain mine as a stock street car. If I have a problem, I go home and fix it later. Over the course of eight years, I have lost two track days due to car breakage, and I figure the cost of two lost days looks pretty good relative to the trailer and additional equipment I would feel obligated to buy.

CT03911

My car gets an alignment once a year. It does not need more than that, it does not change on my car.
I have no leaks at all.
My rears wear at almost the same rate as the fronts. They lose grip before they cord. I have always replaced all four.
If you are an instructor you knnow you need a roll bar. That means no way can you even carry one extra wheel, tool box and small jack up front, yes.
You will need a diff. I did guard internals only to the original housing. Less than 2k.
Many tire options.
Go aftermarket on at least the front rotors. OEM rotors up front last 5 track days.
Four run sessions and you are out of gas +/- at all tracks. You need to bring a few gallons anyways or buy track gas to get you on the road at days end.

IPguy

Regarding a spare, I am considering the solution mentioned in these posts:

https://rennlist.com/forums/1562634-post8.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/1562634-post8.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/3722114-post1.html

Mike

JR944

You really don't want a total dollar figure. It's too much fun driving the car at the track, to look at those costs logically and you don't want to share that # with your SO.

Yes, you'll need pads, rotors, and fluids. Pads and rotors are substantial, fluids are not if you do your own service. If you're going to drive the car on the street regularly, I'd think seriously about 2 sets of pads and changing them between track outings.

Likewise, again if you're regularly street driving, I'd recommend two sets of tires. You can price at TireRack. Depending on your choices, a set of street tires. Depending on your choices, you can spend about $800-1,600 per set. I currently use some (relatively speaking) VERY inexpensive Kumho street tires and am very happy with them. On the track, it seems that the most commonly chosen tires are the MPSC's, which are pretty expensive. Too many variables to know how many track days you'll get per set. Depends on your driving style, alignment, temperature, and track surface.

A lot of people have rebuilt their LSD's at pretty low mileage. Mine, at about 83k miles is still working. Probably not like new, but not a problem on the track yet. I'll rebuild it this winter when we go through the transmission as the 3rd gear synchros are pretty bad now.

Yes, the motor can leak at the seals. Not nearly as prevalent as the M96 cars, but it can happen. Less likely if you drive it regularly, IMO.

When driven very hard at the track, the car is very sensitive to proper alignment. At the shop where I'm currently working, we quote $300 for alignment WITH corner balance. If it takes us less time or it's just a check and fine adjustment, we may charge less.

I have fit one rear tire plus a rear wheel with tire mounted in the back of the car. Passenger leg room was severely compromised. I believe you could fit one each front and rear wheel/tire combinations in the back. Once the roll bar and seats go in, I think one wheel/tire in the passenger seat would be the limit.

A small tool box and small jack are not a problem to fit in the trunk.

Hope that helps. You really should go drive one.

Joe

himself

Too many questions for one thread! lol And all of the answers already exist in some form, but it would take some time to search them down [again due to the number of questions ]

My answers are in red:
I also alway bring my laptop and durametric reader.

-td

SleepRM3

Thanks, men!

A trailer is sounding mandatory for this car. My 4-door E36 M3, as homely-looking as it is, has plenty of space for trackside support, so a trailer's not needed.

With the GT3, while it's on another level of performance, will require more trackside support should a breakage occur (not if, but when).

Perhaps I'll just be a "GT3 poseur" for awhile until I can get that trailer, pull vehicle, Porsche motorsports spares, and crew guy together?

Porsche917K

As Tom said, all of the answers you want are covered here multiple times.

By my calculations, track costs for me were about $650 per track day. This does NOT include track fees, cost of car, or damage. Your costs may vary depending on how well you want to maintain your car and what type of tires you run.

mjb

I don't think a trailer is at all "madatory" unless you're determined to track your car with Hoosiers. Many GT3's show up at track days (i.e. DE) around here regularly and few are trailered in. Assuming you have requisite GT3 seats, roll bar, harness setup; keep the brakes (pads, rotors, fluid) maintained, change the oil regularly, get it corner balanced/aligned, throw on MPSC, Nitto's, or R888, drive to the track and have a ball. These things don't break much at the track, but bring a reasonable tool kit - ability to remount the splitter if you have an off (invest in a bag of fastners/screws for the splitter), torque wrench, maybe impact gun, small jack. You also might want to pick up some shims (4deg or 8deg) to increase the angle of attack on your rear wing, and you'll need a torx socket to loosen and secure the wing.

SleepRM3

Good firm $ figure. Thanks.

Good to know. Thanks! When did PCA require rollbars and harneses on DE cars?

pplace993

For a while now, especially in the upper run groups ( white, black & red). As for tracking a Gt3, you dont need a trailer. Thats the one of the main reasons why I bought one, I got tried of having to pull out my trailer everytime I wanted to go to the track. I have a 944t S( hoosiers, track suspension, rollbar, race seats) which I tracked for almost 10yrs & thats the only way I could get it to the track. With a GT3, mount some MPSC & off you go!!!

mjb

Oh, I didn't mean "requisite" in that sense as the PCA clubs out here ( and just about all the other track clubs I'm aware of) do not require roll bar, harnesses, etc. for DE events.
However, it seemed you were heading down the path of a very track capable GT3 (race pads, rcomps, etc) and I think you'll find the standard sport seats and 3-point belt lacking for serious track work if you're driving anywhere near the limits of the GT3. So, all the well setup GT3's that track fairly regularly typically (at least in Norcal) have GT3 euro seats, rollbar (Teq, GMG, DAS, TC Design, etc), and 5/6 point harnesses. The seats and harnesses (attached properly to the rollbar) will provide an added degree of comfort and safety that the street setup does not for serious lapping at the track. You want your butt planted firmly in the seat and not sliding around under the g loading the GT3 with rcomps is capable of producing. There's more than you'll ever want to read on roll bars, safety, etc on this forum and the racing forum so I won't even begin to touch that one.

mooty

20 days

2 sets front pads $1000 pagid yellow RS29 or RS19 or black RS14
1 set rear pad $500
1 set front rotors (depending on track you do): $800 or you can do protosport rotor for less.
1 set rear rotors $400
I do oil change every 1000 track miles. DIY $150
Brake fluid: motul 600 or SRF $150 per year tops.

Your LSD is either already dead or dying. A good one from paul guard is approx 3000. Just do it. It will last you 2-3 years then rebuild it. You actually don’t need a LSD unless your are racing for the last fraction of second. My LSD was dead, I don’t have instability under hard braking.

Most 6GT3 don’t have RMS issue. If your leak, warranty will cover it. If not, maybe $4000 parts and labor from dealer. No, GT1 block is NOT immune from RMS but happens less often than M96 blocks.

DO NOT align your GT3 at dealers. They think anything more than 1.5 deg of camber is deadly. Get a race shop to do it. You need rear toe links by TRG or Tarret. Else the eccentric will move and you will lose rear toe and scare yourself ****less. I like to align my cars every months, but I do 3-4 track days a months. I think most sane ppl just align it every 6 month.

Your can run MPSC, R888, NT-01 and the like. Rear wears faster than front. Usually 1.5:1. Tire management is hard if you only have one set of wheels. MPSC is a love it or hate it tire. Some of my friends love mpsc. I can’t drive those. I am faster with wooden tires. i post faster times with R888 than MPSC. That said, MPSC is a good tire. It’s a personal pref.

Very hard to carry full size spare. But it can be done. I never had to use spare (I never carried one). Did have to get towed home 1x after coolant leak.

I wouldn’t bother bring jack if you don’t trailer. You should make sure your car is good to go. If you have an issue or an off at track, borrow jack from friends. I used to borrow. Now I have trailer, others borrow from me. Just share. Carry full size jack in GT3 is not easy and you most likely break your back or car’s interior.

I don’t see why anyone brings a full tool box to track. If you need that much tool to get cars to work, you should pack up and go home. It’s not your day. Bring some wrenches to adj sway bars, tire pres gauge, tq wrench, oil, spare pads, a few screw drivers that’s it.

I see 3-5 GT3 on track every time I go (that’s quite often, 35+ days a year), no one brings that much tool. You will be fine. Don’t over think it too much.

Rob in VA

Bring a left and right coolant hose with you. TRUST me! I've had both burst on me. Not fun for anyone.

I heard the plastic coolant overflow bottle breaks as well. I only carry that when going to a far track.
Bring an extra serpentine belt with you as well.

Leigh2

Here's the data sheet for appropriate R compounds.