Dell, I think your on to something. I drove a buddy's GT3 with the Hoosier R6 tires and it felt WAY BETTER than the MPSC. The MPSC are great when new (and warm), but fall off dramatically after that IMO. The Nittos so far have been great and although not as fast as the newer MPSC or Hoosiers, they are predictable and so far, they seem to last long.

 

i dont know the ambient temp when you spun, but our track ambient temp is usually 65F or more. i can warm up the tires in one lap. instead of driving fast to warm them up, just do many hard brake (make sure no one is behind you), that will heat up the tires faster than doing hot laps.

i do use berms A LOT. in tight turns especially to reduce residual understeer. but keep the throttle in there.

have fun.

i was riding with a friend in a well set up GT3 today, we flew off a high speed corner big time today. slicks just let go... gladly no damage.

 

Ok. I will be politically incorrect: it seems that there is a double language when talking about spinning.

When I talk to "pros" ( which I do very often) behind a cup of coffee, practically ALL of them agree that there is nothing wrong with spinning your car on a track. It's just - they mantain - a question of limits. No big deal. You would not find were the limit is until you don't trespass it. It's not very practical, you can damage the car...and yourself ( they say ) and it depends also in which turn you take your risk.

When I talk to the same "pros" in front of third parties ( track days organizers, "aficionados" ) they begin to be more "relativistic".. " Well, you shoud keep the control on the car,etc...", " a good driver explores the limits slowly", etc...

Obviously there is - from my point of view - a question of WERE TO DO WHAT: "a hair is a hair, but it's not the same in my head than in my soup". A spin is a spin but it depends when and were it happens and under which environment ( track day, DE, race ).

I have my self a dilema: I know a driver that continously spins and visits the boundaries of the track. He his very fast the day he succeeds to stay in the track.. We all ( our tracking group) think that he is a disaster, a danger for himself, for his car and perhaps for the rest of us...

I have spun eight times in my last four track days. At least four of them being coached by a pro sitting next to me. I am known to be a reasonable driver ( typically 1.5 / 2 sec slower than a pro on a 1'50" lap ) and "carefull" . I have to admit that It's obvious ( to me ) that I am spinning more now than before, as I am trying to squeeze the last fractions of seconds in some places...

Funny enough, on my 1st track year I unly spun ..once.

BTW - and this is clearly politically incorrect - the more I spin...the more I learn about car limits ( I know it's shocking, as car control is opposite to spinning ). As a matter of fact , now I only do a spin after having controlled the car trying to spin several times on the same track..

So... What is right and what is wrong ?

 

Come close to spinning, but at a speed that allows you to catch it. You'll learn as much asn have much less risk. Of course also pick your spots--some places are much safer to spin or get loose than others.

 

I was going with the 245/295 setup.

 

That is a lot of spinning. In fact in my PCA region I'd bet they would take you off the track after your second or third spin in one day. They would definately want to talk to you after any incident that goes 4 wheels off.

Where are most of your spins happening? Is there a pattern?

No flame intended, but that seems like a high percentage to me.

 

Agree with Ray on this one. 2 spins and your done for the day in most PCA regions unless you have a really good reason. Learning the limit of the car can be achieved WITHOUT spinning. Car control is where you learn to master the car (ability to interpret the car's communication to you is a crucial skill to learn). Yes you can learn from a spin but if you are spinning that much you are not learning properly. Sounds like you are driving outside your limits too frequently. Having an instructor in the right seat isn't a good excuse either. If anything you should NOT be spinning.

I am sure you are a great driver but stating that you are only 1.5-2 seconds slower than a pro driver is very hard to believe for a 1:50 track.

 

Spinning is part of this sport. If a driver does it over and over at the same section of a circuit or all over the circuit then I see that as a learning problem.

Another aspect to this is a risk assessment of when one should really push the limits. Most circuits have sections were a loss of car control is relatively safe for the driver and the car. Those are the sections where a driver can explore the limits and not be penalized for exceeding them. Depending on ones goals the other sections of the track may eventually have to be pushed as well in order to have the complete 'fast' lap. Taking the incremental approach of attacking the lower risk sections first and then working up to the higher risk sections does work.

We had a really lengthy thread on this 'spinning" topic on the 'driving forum'.

 

Thanks very much for sharing. I am at the same experience level as you and beginning to add some of the upgrades you mentioned. I appreciated your candor in sharing the experience. I have not spun yet in my GT3 and I think this thread may help me to keep it that way.

Cheers

David

 

CVR region of PCA also has a two spin rule, which ends the day. Two wheels off is also considered a spin. If you spun 8 times during 4 track days with most regions, I know the chief instructor would like to have a long talk with you as you're a danger to yourself and everyone else on the track. This is DE we're talking about, not racing, correct?

 

Sorry , my reply was sent by mistake in this topic.... Which is clearly about DE's. I have to agree with everybody. Spinning is NOT for DE's. Sorry for the confusion..

 

Roscoe
Worse spin I've ever had was at turn 3 at NHIS. I did a 540 and ended up facing the apex of the turn with cars coming at me. Problem was I was in second gear for the uphill, went into the turn way too fast, applied too much throttle, had too much power, and you know the rest. No damage, no foul.
This was in my 993 Turbo with MSPC's.

 

What are your tire temps?

 

I too had an incident with the MPSC's on my GT-3 did a bunch of talking with Farnbacher-Loles ,David Murry, and Joel Reiser.Although the car should be corrected for the bump steer issue and I went to a straight monoball suspension in the rear I think the side wall firmness in the MPSC contributes to the firm chassis and spins are more likely. I have had much better luck running the 305 Toyos on the rear with the 245's on the front .Good Luck

 

I can't beleive you decided to go with the 305's. You are talking about the RA-1 correct? That 305 is so the wrong size for the car. The diameter of that diamter is 1.5" greater than the 25" stock size. Not good. The fronts work but the RA-1 does not come in the "proper" size for a 3.