Crazy Canuck

I'd be interested to know the difference in weight b/w a Z06 engine and a 997GT3 engine. Even though the Z06 features pushrods and a larger displacement there may not be much difference in weight since pushrods allow for a more compact engine compared to an engine featuring DOHC.

The Z06 also features extensive usage of carbon fiber (front fenders, roof). Why doesn't Porsche? More expensive to do so = lower profit margin.

arenared

In a recent Car&Driver:

"Carbon fiber adds style to the M6's roof, lowering curb weight and the car's center of gravity."

Even the car mags pick up on this stuff. I don't know about the style aspect, but it is also a matter of marketing and perception which you would think Porsche would choose to exploit.

MJSpeed

This whole sunroof issue is so ilogical. They spent thousands of Euro's/Dollars researching and testing light weight materials, then they use carbon fiber as part of the body work and then they go and F@$K it all up by adding 30-40 lbs of un-NEEDED weight...

OldGuy

Sunroof in this car is an abysmal dillution of the GT3 ethos. PASM and TC are another dillution- all these things are perfect in a TT, and its available and it goes 193 MPH. These things should not be in a GT3. Its supposed to be a completey different driving experience- I know I have driven both on the track. You can get away with more in a TT or a C4S- If thats what you want then by all means buy one. They are there for that purpose. If you want a pure more involving driving experience you *should* be able to buy a GT3 minus all those things. Those things matter in my lap times. I drove my TT fast right away. It took me alot longer to go faster in the GT3 and was more rewarding.
I felt much better about my skills after driving a GT3 than my TT.
The Cup car is a non arguement-the cost difference in operation and trailering rebuilding the motor, etc etc are huge. You can drive your GT3 to the track and back home. Porsche is doing nothing but cashing in on the GT3 name and dilluting the product. The 996 GT3 is as close to a street legal race car as you can get, the 997 less so, and so it continues with Porsche.
WIth the 996 GT3 there were a bunch of buyers who thought it would be cool, only to be unhappy, because it was too stiff, too noisey etc etc
(they didnt read the instructions)
They complained and sold right away-Porsche is probably trying to avoid this happening again.
Actually as someone said its both Porsche and the DOT fault (porsche being too lazy or tight to crash test another coupe and that says alot about what they think of us their US customers)

Roscoe

Again, 996 GT3's will firm in secondary market at the sunroof debacle continues. If you are on the fence, step up! And NO, I am not selling mine!

Palting

I wouldn't hold my breath, Roscoe. The market is what the market is. People said and continue to say the same thing with the 993 vs 996: The 993 (the last "true" raw Porsche) will hold firm in the used car market vs the 996 (The GT luxo-Porsche). A look at the selling prices of the 1998 993 C2S vs the 1999 996 C2 says differently.

I would love to buy your car, or buy a car simillar to yours from someone willing to sell. It's a great car. BUT, I like the added performance of the 997 GT3, I like the new more aggressive look, and I like my car new and not used. I just love the idea of PASM, a chameleon suspension that changes from a firm street ride to a hard track performer. To me, the 997 GT3 is what the GT3 should be: True dual personality of a street car and a track car.

Although Porsche deserves some boos for taking away a Porschephiles ability to order a strip down trackster, Porsche also deserves some credit, for they improved upon the 996 GT3, already an excellent street legal race car, by increasing it's ability both in the street and on the track. I really would like to have a used 996 GT3, but I prefer the new 997 GT3. I am willing to bet, as is Porsche, that there is a huge market out there of people just like me

MetalSolid

I find it interesting that buyers like Palting (no offense) want a GT3, when the Turbo would suit them better. Are people moving away from the Turbo because it's too expensive or because it's too soft? If the latter, isn't it ironic that the very customers that wanted the Turbo more comfortable are now jumping ship and now demanding Porsche also soften the GT3, the very reason they no longer find the Turbo appealing. I see a pattern.

OldGuy

a 98 911 C2S is worth far more than a newer 99 996.

Well Noel, as you said, no offense but some people didnt know the difference between a GT3 motor and a C4S motor, so vastly different its not even comparable. That says alot- If you dont know that how can you tell Porsche how to design the new 997GT3?

forklift

This says it all for me. Very disappointed that they don't even offer it w/o a sunroof. What a crock of sh*t.

pcar964

You're exactly right - Porsche has realized this, and is catering to their needs. I'm surprised they didn't just slap a GT3 badge and a wing on an X51 997 S and call it a day.

For all intents and purposes, the Porsche brand is dying a slow death right before our eyes. The turbo is a land yacht luxury GT car, the standard luxury street cars (boxster, cayman, carreras) wreak of mass-production mediocrity, and the supposed flagship performance model GT3 is now a compromise. Nothing lasts forever.

Palting

OK. I guess I've become the default rep of the new GT3 buyer, not a distinction I was looking for.

Anyway, using MetalSolids example, I don't really want the GT3 softer. I may want the Turbo harder. But "harder" or "softer" evoke such knee jerk responses that I don't believe they represent what I mean. A more precise definition would be "streetable" and "trackable". The ideal car I suppose would be a car that is Cup car trackable on the track, then, at the flick of a switch, turbo streetable for street. How much streetability is too much (NAV, 9 speaker sound, cappucino maker on the dash) vs how much trackability is too much (teeth chattering, tramlining suspension or an empty interior save for seats and roll bar), is a tough judgement. The GT3, as in life, is about compromise. For those that want their cake (turbo), and eat it too (cup car) like me, the new GT3 is headed in the right direction.

OTOH, the new GT3 RS misses the mark. They should start with a Cup car, make as little change as possible to make it street legal, and call that the GT3RS.

OldGuy

Palting you have Porsche in your corner. You are the new GT3 buyer and imbracing what they are offering. YOU are in much better position than US, so dont sweat it. However drive both so you are sure and dont end up selling after 2000 miles and deciding its not what you want. There were plenty of those
on the last model. we are the old bunch of wannabes. Porsche doest care what we want- they want you as the new customer. and since the line (and assembly lines) are blurred they get to use more of the same parts save money and charge you alot.
The old GT3 was not really a bone chattering drive but it was adjustable and fine on the track. SO
you are benifitting from all this. Spend your money wisely and make sure you get what YOU want.
you have several choices here. Our choice is not even existant and thats our problem. I am going to stand pat on my 996 GT3- I think in the long run it will be the keeper and the 997 GT3 Lexus version the popular choice.

pcar964

Classic example of incorrect framing of the question... This is happening all throughout society nowadays, to the point where I can even tie this to contemporary politics:

The political spectrum shifts to the left so that Republicans today resemble Democrats of yesteryear. And Democrats of today resemble, well, Socialists.

What's considered a "Bone jarring, teeth rattling ride" today in a 996 GT3, resembles the ride quality of any plain-jane street GT car of yesteryear. And the standard suspension in a 997 rides as smoothly as a 70s Cadillac El Dorado.

It's all relative. But some of us aren't fooled into believing the sound-byte simply because it's repeated by the parrots in the media (or in this case, the web forum).

icon

i don't know about that?
you just jumped on metalsolids idea of people jumping ship from the turbo to the gt3!
i thought the turbo was supposed to be enjoying record sales?
some people have even stated it might delay gt3 production.
doesnt sound like anyone's jumping ship to me!?
jeff

pcar964

Yeah but the lower sales are probably due to other factors. The GT3 badge is what people want, because it has become the cult favorite, replacing the Turbo. It's the image that they want. So they want to turn the GT3 into the luxury car the Turbo has become, for all intents and purposes, so they can appear to be 'hardcore' and still have their comfortable daily driver.