Nizer

It's not just Porsche. VW just dropped the GX3 concept due to liability concerns in the US:

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/05/i...drops-the-gx3/

Bottom line, we've nobody to blame but ourselves.

rockitman

No sunroof option == 996 GT3. Sorry to hear that fella's...

Ed Newman

So if we can only have one choice, I vote for NO SUNROOF

mamoroso

It is interesting to me how you can judge a car (the 997 GT3 and GT3 RS) without having even driven it or without knowing its final specs (GT3 RS).

I understand there is disappointment for the decision made by PAG to bring a different version of the 2 cars to the US.
It truly sucks that you can order a Cayenne without the sunroof but a GT3 will have a hole up there.
But saying the Porsche is going soft I think is incorrect. After all they are producing these cars, they are just not importing them to the US.

Another issue that I have with people that complain is that you can always close the sunroof up if it really screws up your lap time.
I do not understand the so called "purists". What is the definition of a "purist" first of all? How can u be a purist and even consider a car with ABS, power steering, TC, PSM, PASM etc? Aren't these more of an issue than the sunroof?

Also the RS will come without carbon fiber shells, LWF, battery switch etc? You guys are thinking of shelling $120k on a new car... with an extra 4-5k you'd solve all these problems and have a fantastic car that is head and shoulder above anything else on the road.

What am I missing?

Stuka you decided not to buy the new GT3 because of the sunroof and went for a 996 GT2 instead. I applaud your decision for having bought a fantastic car... but I doubt the GT2 would be the "purist" choice around the racetrack.

The US have never seen the 911 RS, why cry foul now?

stuka

Well, let's see about the difference between 996 GT2 and 997 GT3:

1. Mandatory no sunroof.

2. No PSM, TC, or other lack of talent saving device.

3. Manually adjustable suspension, none of this PASM crap. What's next? Air suspension like BMW's that automatically levels itself?

It's not just about the lapt time, it's the fact that:

1. Helmet clearance.

2. The stupid creaks that you get when you drive over burms on the track.

3. Traction Control, are you joking me? If you can't drive on the track without Please Save Me, you need RWD 101 and lots of it before getting on the track.

So they want me to pay 120K for a car that creaks at the track, with electronics that I have to remember to shut off, suspensions that will cost $$$$ when it stops adjusting itself, and have to sit in non ideal driving position on the track for a car that is supposed to be their club sport track car? A car that you can drive to the track and then track it? Then go home in it in AC?

If you all think that's fine, then we have nobody to blame about the sunroof bling but the "enthusiasts."

enthusiast

mamoroso;

I assume you haven't read the other numerous remarks we have made about what the GT3 Model is or should be. The RoW model choices are typically better and closer to the engineering way of designing a car than the 'for North America' marketing teams' design.

There are plenty of good Porsche AG car models to chose from without further diluting the performance of the GT3. This is not a "Porsche purist" issue, heck, what is that anyway. It is about reasonable compromises on a street car that is designed for increased performance on road racing circuits. Porsche has done this before with street legal RS and Club Sport models.

Please remember Porsche AG's marketing of the PCCB on the 996 GT3 with their emphasis on the 30 lbs less unsprung mass than iron brake set up. How does that thinking go with a heavy sunroof assembly? It doesn't.

- Sunroof adds sprung mass in about the worst possible location on the vehicle and has no track performance value

- Sunroof assembly reduces interior space (the helmet clearance issue for some drivers)

Consider these compromises that could be fixed by making them options.

- make many of the power features; mirrors, windows, locks, seats into options

- music system

- AC

- interior sound insulation

- lighter interior door panels

- lighter trunk cosmetic materials, if any

- center rear console

RoW Features that we don't think will make it to North America.

- racing seats

- plastic window(s) (RS)

- sport packages (roll bar, fire extinguisher, seats)

- lighter flywheel/clutch assembly (RS) (thanks RonCT I meant flywheel)

- better suspension components (RS)

Technical Aids.

- traction control with ON/OFF

- PASM not sure what to make of this

- ABS with ON/OFF (probably a liability issue)

RonCT

Don't forget the single mass flywheel (lightweight) we won't get on the US RS that the RoW gets. Too loud and rough for the US market you know.

I think you have to put our complaints into context. You are right in that we haven't even driven the car. The point is that the World Market get's one car and we get another that is watered down, luxuried-up, heavier, etc.

38D

Lets see the differences between your "pure" GT2 and my 964T are:

1) Advanced and easy to drive multi-link rear suspension
2) Low lag twin turbos
3) Water cooled
4) 4 valves/cyl
5) variocam
7) 6 speeds
8) A cup holder
9) Highly superior aero

My turbo has a sunroof, as most did when ordered back in 1991. Sure I would rather no have it, but a sunroof does not make a car less pure or less enjoyable. I manage to crush most new cars at the track in my old & primitive single turbo, though I would definitely love all the refinements listed above, even if I had to have a sunroof. So unless you are driving a 4 cam Carerra, you might not want to get too high up on the uppity horse as you ain't driving a "pure" Porsche.

gt3racerich

If Porsche is listening, which I doubt, here is what I have to say. The 997 GT3 is nice. I feel that car should not even be available with a sunroof. It is not enough for me to move up from my 996, so it does not effect me. Then I here the RS is coming. I start scheming, tell the wife I might sell the 996 and order an RS.(she says she was waiting for that, but thinks I should have both) Anyway, the US is the biggest market for Porsche, almost 50% of total sales. It is scheisslich that we can not get the cars that the ROW gets. So Porsche, what I want to say is if the RS is only available with a sunroof, I for one, will not be buying one.
Rich

mamoroso

I understand, and it sucks, don't get me wrong. But the US market never got the same cars that the rest of the world would get.
The 73 RS never made it here, ditto for the 74 RS. What about the 946 RS? Nope it was the RSA joke. The 993 RS and the 993 GT3 RS were again never imported to the US. And what about the 959? and the fact that the Carrera 3.2 was less powerful and so on.
What I am saying is that is has always been the same. This 997 GT3 fiasco is not any different.

You are saying that the 997 version goes a step further as the 996 didn't have (as it should be) the sunroof, whilst with the new GT3 you have no choice...
Well I agree, it sucks...

But let me ask you guys (a little tongue in cheek here please) what is the point of buying the new GT3. Have you all reached the limit of the cars you are driving? Is lap time the deciding factor? Do you need to have the latest most advanced P-car? I ask the people that rightly complain about the absurdity of the sunroof for a track car. Aren't we all after having fun?
So I understand that in principle the sunroof thing is bad, but the new GT3 will be a car that pushes the envelope just a little further.
In Europe they are all raving about it... I doubt that the sunroof will change it's carachter by that much.

jaymtford

The difference is that they are actually calling it an RS this time. If its not the same spec as the ROW GT3RS, then it should be called GT3RSA.
The marketing people shouldn't be allowed to tread on the history of the "RS" moniker just so they can charge +20K USD for some green or orange paint and a few stickers
It just shows how Porsche is willing to sell its heritage "down the river" in search of more profits. Next thing you know they will be selling a Cayenne RS

Cupcar

Because I usually brush my head on the headliner of a car with a sunroof, certainly can't wear a helmet in a Porsche with a sunroof and have had issues with leaks and squeaks from them in the past, not to mention I hate to dig dried car wax from around it when detailing my car plus, with a history of skin cancer, I never, ever open the thing- I HATE SUNROOFS, nothing could be a more useless addition to a car of mine.

Having said the above I want to point out there is plenty of heritage in fitting a sunroof or other luxury amenities to an "RS" since Porsche has done it in the past. The Carrera RS 2.7 was available in a "Touring" version with a more luxurious interior without bucket seats and it had a dual mass flywheel.

The 964 RS had a Touring version available as well and it had a more luxurious interior and, I am reading from an order guide as I write this, the following additional options not available on the "Basic RS":

• Electric Sunroof
• Seat heating
• Power-assisted steering
• Air conditioning
• Radio Symphony RDS
• Bumpers with impact absorbers
• Tinted windshield
• Headlamp washers

At least we are today getting the performance Porsche models in some variant, in the past Porsche marketed the RS cars in Europe without even a peep of complaint from the USA market. Even when the RSA was introduced, nobody knew about the differences between the RSA and the European RS, many bought an RSA thinking they were buying a "real RS".

I am thankful the internet has changed this and it is not possible for Porsche to capitalize on market ignorance and successfully niche market the USA out of the real performance goods.

I hope market conditions reach the point Porsche is forced to make the investment in bringing the performance RS to the USA, not just the "Touring" version.

When I heard the 997 RS was coming here, I called my dealer to order a new Porsche for the first time since 1992 when the Carrera Cups came on the market, but have lost interest since I don't want a Touring model- there just have to be enough like me out there to make it worth Porsche's while not to loose the sales. I am hopeful the internet will change this too.

dark knight

sunroof= added weight, increased drag, less headroom and wax gets on the edges and the weather seal and is unisghtly, no sunroof please, part of the issue is that all the other things can be added or removed (on/off switches/flywheel/seats etc) but this cannot , these cars are supposed to be custom ordered like a tailored suit, not "off the rack", the individuality is one of the things you are willing to pay for and it is what makes Porsche more individual than Ferrari or other marques

stuka

Look, you have my respect for being able to drive those cars fast, but that really says more about the driver and not the car.

And nowadays, the 996 GT2/3's are about as pure as it gets. What other 911's nowadays has no sunroof or Please Save Me?

Oh, and again, if you are like me, 6'2" with 32" inseam, sunroof sucks. From time to time I bump into the side of the headlinder with my helmet when driving, I shouldn't have to pay 120K for a new car to be told that sorry, your lame American version comes with a mandatory hole on the roof. If you don't like the lack of headroom and the creaks from the sunroof, too bad, go buy a used GT3.

On that I alone, I decided not to buy one. It might be faster, it might pwnz all cars on the track, but it is no longer what I considered a real GT3. Might as well put SAT NAV standard.

blake

I agree with Stuka. I am his height/weight, and have had the "track" bug for over 14 years now -and finally am in a position to go for it... Asthetically, the 997 GT3 is absolutely gorgeous. The Walter Rohl video got my blood pumping, and the thought of an RS stateside made me salivate. However, news of the sunroof/TV monitor deflated my sails, so I purchased a low miles 996 GT3 whihc I will make "trackable" over this summer/fall, and still have my spot in line for the 997 GT3RS if, in fact, it surprises me. With over 50% of Porsches revenue coming from the US, I would expect more focus on our market.... I guess I was wrong.