Porsche is listening?
#16
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Originally Posted by RonCT
It's the Fed that changed the rules to now require that both versions - with and without a sunroof - have to be crash tested and certified.
![](https://members.rennlist.com/jandreas/FMVSS-216-Cayenne.jpg)
Originally Posted by enthusiast
The crash testing does not cost Porsche AG anything because all costs are passed on through their product line to customers
Originally Posted by Mr. C4
1st of all, the US Spec 997 GT3 RS is a joke
#17
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Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
The ROW 996GT3-RS really wasn't that much of an improvement over the standard 996GT3. There was just as much bling as there was actual meat.
Then you tell me what you call a list like that.
Ciao,
#18
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Originally Posted by Mr. C4
Then you tell me what you call a list like that.
revised wheel hub assemblies
divided front-and rear lateral suspension control arms, optimized rear-axle geometry
upgraded engine mounts
acrylic rear window
carbon-fiber front hood and rear wing
LWF
rollcage, eelectrical cutt offs, fire extinguisher, 6-point harness
suede steeringwheel and gearknob,
revised cooling aero
Last edited by JasonAndreas; 06-30-2006 at 02:29 AM.
#19
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Nice to see Micheal Bartsch is still winning friends in another environment.He won so many friends at previous post they promoted him! Worth noting that the "new" Porsche have no interest in the owners of " old" Porsches like 993's. Basic definition of "old" is not the current model-- or more accurately -- anything that is not for sale then or into the future.Porsche's idea of racing their cars is that an 06 should beat an 05 should beat an 04 and so on. The fact that you may be treading on the toes of people that have bought literally hundreds of cars seems to make no difference.Jumped up marketing and sales people who have no respect for existing Porsche owners and who actually might be a potential customer does not seem to occurr to them.Yes, things have changed.
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Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
Engine mounts are the same as GT3
Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
A polycarbonate window on a street car is bling.
Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
If the carbon fiber front hood saves a lot of weight than its meat but the rear wing is actually just a single layer of carbon overlaying (i'm guessing) fiberglass (i.e. bling).
Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
On a street car everything but the fire extinguisher is unuseable and bling. If you are going to drive around with a helmet (say on the track) then the rollcage and harness can be of some use. But except for the rollcage all were options for the regular GT3.
Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
fake suede that doesn't hold up to well to human sweat is bling.
Ciao,
#21
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It's alcantara not suede
I don't have any sweat problems with it either. Guess I was born with dry palms? ![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
As always the revised engine maps + modified head were left off the list of changes. I'd certainly say that qualified as meat.
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
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As always the revised engine maps + modified head were left off the list of changes. I'd certainly say that qualified as meat.
#22
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Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
Auto manufacturers have always had to certify sunroof and non-sunroof vehicles separately for roof crush-resistance and passenger head contact. The new regulations won't start to go into effect until MY09. Here is a picture of the test-rig that Porsche uses for FMVSS 216, the same rig has been in service since 1972.
![](https://members.rennlist.com/jandreas/FMVSS-216-Cayenne.jpg)
How many potential GT3 owners are willing to eat a $20k USD increase in price for a sunroof-less 997? A new headliner and roof section can be purchased for a little over $1K USD, add maybe double that for installation?
The ROW 996GT3-RS really wasn't that much of an improvement over the standard 996GT3. There was just as much bling as there was actual meat.
![](https://members.rennlist.com/jandreas/FMVSS-216-Cayenne.jpg)
How many potential GT3 owners are willing to eat a $20k USD increase in price for a sunroof-less 997? A new headliner and roof section can be purchased for a little over $1K USD, add maybe double that for installation?
The ROW 996GT3-RS really wasn't that much of an improvement over the standard 996GT3. There was just as much bling as there was actual meat.
I think the whole "FMVSS" cost excuse is a smoke screen, PCNA just don't want to market cars with a sun roof for some reason...perhaps to keep a helmeted driver uncomfortable and off the track???
#23
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It's so much more expensive to certify now because as I understand it you now have to test both sunroof and non-sunroof versions, where before (996) you only had to test one. I'm sure Porsche is sitting there thinking - well, we already have the 997 and 997S tested with sunroof, which is how 95% of those buyers want the car, so why spend the money and time to separately test a non-sunroof version for the GT3.
#24
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Here is the standard http://www.citizen.org/autosafety/in...gm_docs/12.pdf
Note how it fits the machine Jason Andreas pictures. I wonder if the sunroof car is actually stiffer and the car flunks the test without the sunroof? How hard and expensive can it be to test a non-sunroof car if this is the test.
Note how it fits the machine Jason Andreas pictures. I wonder if the sunroof car is actually stiffer and the car flunks the test without the sunroof? How hard and expensive can it be to test a non-sunroof car if this is the test.
#25
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Originally Posted by Mr. C4
They are different on RS ...
Originally Posted by Mr. C4
How can that be "bling", isn't lightweight racefocused products for FIA homologation what the RS is all about!?
Originally Posted by Mr. C4
It is there for aerodynamical purposes/improvement.
Originally Posted by Mr. C4
Again, how can that be "bling", isn't racefocused safety products for FIA homologation what the RS is all about!?
Originally Posted by Mr. C4
It is not fake suede, it is genuine. Suede grips better when used together with suede gloves but you would only know that if you understand from the beginning what the RS is all about.
Originally Posted by cupcar
If so, why is it so much more expensive to certify a car now then it was a couple of years ago? If amortized over a 700 car GT3 allotment to the USA
Originally Posted by cupcar
I wonder if the sunroof car is actually stiffer and the car flunks the test without the sunroof? How hard and expensive can it be to test a non-sunroof car if this is the test
Last edited by JasonAndreas; 07-06-2006 at 12:35 AM.
#27
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Originally Posted by RonCT
It's so much more expensive to certify now because as I understand it you now have to test both sunroof and non-sunroof versions, where before (996) you only had to test one. I'm sure Porsche is sitting there thinking - well, we already have the 997 and 997S tested with sunroof, which is how 95% of those buyers want the car, so why spend the money and time to separately test a non-sunroof version for the GT3.
The goal is to sell more GT3's & RS's than the last generation. To do that they need to appeal to a broader audience, so they build a car closer to the creature comforts of a 997S & forgo the expense of offering something (the option of no sunroof) they feel only the minority will want. Result...more sales, higher margins and a future promotion for Otto in accounting.
You don't see them holding back on the nav, heated seats, etc...
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#29
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I'm not trying to justify their decision, but it clearly costs money to crash a car and also to offer different versions.
What other explanation makes sense?
What other explanation makes sense?
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#30
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You can't tell me no one from Zuffenhausen ever reads this board.
I can picture their recent conversations...
Otto from accounting: "Zos Americans are schtupid. Too many Big Macs und petrol fumes in zee brain. Raise da price again."
Wolfgang in engineering: "Yah und zey buy vat ve tell zem to buy. Nuzing else, or zey get zat plastic car from Kentucky."
Klaus the marketing guy: "Build more, zee zatellite photos show empty spaces on zome dealer lots."
Then it's off for more brats & beers...
I can picture their recent conversations...
Otto from accounting: "Zos Americans are schtupid. Too many Big Macs und petrol fumes in zee brain. Raise da price again."
Wolfgang in engineering: "Yah und zey buy vat ve tell zem to buy. Nuzing else, or zey get zat plastic car from Kentucky."
Klaus the marketing guy: "Build more, zee zatellite photos show empty spaces on zome dealer lots."
Then it's off for more brats & beers...