JasonAndreas

Auto manufacturers have always had to certify sunroof and non-sunroof vehicles separately for roof crush-resistance and passenger head contact. The new regulations won't start to go into effect until MY09. Here is a picture of the test-rig that Porsche uses for FMVSS 216, the same rig has been in service since 1972.




How many potential GT3 owners are willing to eat a $20k USD increase in price for a sunroof-less 997? A new headliner and roof section can be purchased for a little over $1K USD, add maybe double that for installation?

The ROW 996GT3-RS really wasn't that much of an improvement over the standard 996GT3. There was just as much bling as there was actual meat.

Mr. C4

No? Wouldn't you call revised wheel hub assemblies, divided front-and rear lateral suspension control arms, optimized rear-axle geometry, upgraded engine mounts, acrylic rear window, carbon-fiber front hood and rear wing, LWF, rollcage, nomex seats, electrical cutt offs, fire extinguisher, 6-point harness, suede steeringwheel and gearknob, revised cooling aero and a revised rear wing an improvement?

Then you tell me what you call a list like that.

Ciao,

JasonAndreas

I would count the suspensions mods as meat but lets look at what was and wasn't actually changed;

the mounting points for the lateral control arms and track rods were lowered, that's it.

The mounting points were again lowered and the front control arms from the regular GT3 were placed on the rear permitting slightly more camber adjustment. The changes for the most part all seem to revolve around lowering the car way past what you would on a street driven car, without negatively effecting the handling?

Engine mounts are the same as GT3

A polycarbonate window on a street car is bling.

If the carbon fiber front hood saves a lot of weight than its meat but the rear wing is actually just a single layer of carbon overlaying (i'm guessing) fiberglass (i.e. bling).

definitely meat

On a street car everything but the fire extinguisher is unuseable and bling. If you are going to drive around with a helmet (say on the track) then the rollcage and harness can be of some use but these were all options for the regular GT3.

fake suede that doesn't hold up to well to human sweat is bling

Venting the middle radiator above and not below the car is meat, the brake scoops fall into the same category.

Red9

Nice to see Micheal Bartsch is still winning friends in another environment.He won so many friends at previous post they promoted him! Worth noting that the "new" Porsche have no interest in the owners of " old" Porsches like 993's. Basic definition of "old" is not the current model-- or more accurately -- anything that is not for sale then or into the future.Porsche's idea of racing their cars is that an 06 should beat an 05 should beat an 04 and so on. The fact that you may be treading on the toes of people that have bought literally hundreds of cars seems to make no difference.Jumped up marketing and sales people who have no respect for existing Porsche owners and who actually might be a potential customer does not seem to occurr to them.Yes, things have changed.

Mr. C4

They are different on RS as far as I know but I could be wrong.


How can that be "bling", isn't lightweight racefocused products for FIA homologation what the RS is all about!?


It is there for aerodynamical purposes/improvement.


Again, how can that be "bling", isn't racefocused safety products for FIA homologation what the RS is all about!?

It is not fake suede, it is genuine. Suede grips better when used together with suede gloves, but you would only know that if you understand from the beginning what the RS is all about.

Ciao,

DanH

It's alcantara not suede I don't have any sweat problems with it either. Guess I was born with dry palms?

As always the revised engine maps + modified head were left off the list of changes. I'd certainly say that qualified as meat.

Cupcar

Wasn't "sunroof delete" an option for the USA on the 996 and only just recently dropped for the 997? If so, why is it so much more expensive to certify a car now then it was a couple of years ago? If amortized over a 700 car GT3 allotment to the USA, A $20K increase in price for each GT3 sold in order to certify a sunroof gives Porsche around $ 14 million to certify a sunroof. it can't cost this much, it seems to me they should only have to crush/crash one chassis to certify, unless of course the car actually fails to certify with a sunroof.

I think the whole "FMVSS" cost excuse is a smoke screen, PCNA just don't want to market cars with a sun roof for some reason...perhaps to keep a helmeted driver uncomfortable and off the track???

RonCT

It's so much more expensive to certify now because as I understand it you now have to test both sunroof and non-sunroof versions, where before (996) you only had to test one. I'm sure Porsche is sitting there thinking - well, we already have the 997 and 997S tested with sunroof, which is how 95% of those buyers want the car, so why spend the money and time to separately test a non-sunroof version for the GT3.

Cupcar

Here is the standard http://www.citizen.org/autosafety/in...gm_docs/12.pdf

Note how it fits the machine Jason Andreas pictures. I wonder if the sunroof car is actually stiffer and the car flunks the test without the sunroof? How hard and expensive can it be to test a non-sunroof car if this is the test.

JasonAndreas

That is why I linked to the parts list so we'd all know exactly what had changed.

Polycarbonate rear & side windows are not required for homologation.

Yes but it is also wrapped in Carbon fiber just like the side mirrors.

Again none of those items are required for homologation and none of the parts are used in a cup or RSR but they were available in the regular GT3. The rollcage won't make it very far through an ASN homologation either.

Alcantara is a synthetic microfiber (i.e. fake suede) that is supposed to have great wear characteristics but left unwashed on a steering wheel doesn't. Drive 3 hours in a Porsche during the summer without AC or a sunroof and you will sweat your *** off (i do).


Nothing that I've seen in the regulations has changed (the new rules don't start until MY09) so I don't think its more expensive. The only thing that makes sense is that PCNA is spreading the cost over the sunroof-less GT3s (all 30 of them...) and not all the GT3s?

You also have to test for passenger heads coming into contact with the interior during front, rear and side collisions so I think we are dealing with more than one crashed vehicle.

cosmos

You also forgot to mention all the trick engine mods that were done to the RS. The head has its own part number.

Holger B

The decision by PAG/PCNA not to test a non-sunroof car is strictly financial. The rules haven't changed and the costs aren't more than with the 996.

The goal is to sell more GT3's & RS's than the last generation. To do that they need to appeal to a broader audience, so they build a car closer to the creature comforts of a 997S & forgo the expense of offering something (the option of no sunroof) they feel only the minority will want. Result...more sales, higher margins and a future promotion for Otto in accounting.

You don't see them holding back on the nav, heated seats, etc...

cosmos

I still dont understand how this is a financial issue. This is a multi BILLION dollar corporation!!

Holger B

I'm not trying to justify their decision, but it clearly costs money to crash a car and also to offer different versions.

What other explanation makes sense?

Holger B

You can't tell me no one from Zuffenhausen ever reads this board.

I can picture their recent conversations...

Otto from accounting: "Zos Americans are schtupid. Too many Big Macs und petrol fumes in zee brain. Raise da price again."

Wolfgang in engineering: "Yah und zey buy vat ve tell zem to buy. Nuzing else, or zey get zat plastic car from Kentucky."

Klaus the marketing guy: "Build more, zee zatellite photos show empty spaces on zome dealer lots."

Then it's off for more brats & beers...