The 996 GT3 - the Last of the Breed
04-25-2006, 11:33 AM
#1
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Thread Starter
The 996 GT3 - the Last of the Breed
The 997 GT3 will have PASM, Active Steering, and Traction Control... the King is dead. Long live the... Princess?
I just read the Excellence article, I had no idea it was confirmed that it would have PASM and Active Steering - I must have missed that. Anyway, those are the final nails in the coffin as far as I'm concerned...
Those of you with 996 GT3s, enjoy your cars! They represent the end of an era, the last of the pure breed of sportscars Porsche will ever produce, in all likelihood. I predict their used price will soon stabilize and then start appreciating slowly, just like the RS models of the past.
I have no agenda with this thread, just want to hear your opinions. I know we've talked about this topic a lot the past few months, and we know there's a difference of opinion on the driver aides, etc. But it's interesting that the 996 GT3 will be the last stand in a long line of great raw sportscars, and curious how you feel about that (good and bad).
I just read the Excellence article, I had no idea it was confirmed that it would have PASM and Active Steering - I must have missed that. Anyway, those are the final nails in the coffin as far as I'm concerned...
Those of you with 996 GT3s, enjoy your cars! They represent the end of an era, the last of the pure breed of sportscars Porsche will ever produce, in all likelihood. I predict their used price will soon stabilize and then start appreciating slowly, just like the RS models of the past.
I have no agenda with this thread, just want to hear your opinions. I know we've talked about this topic a lot the past few months, and we know there's a difference of opinion on the driver aides, etc. But it's interesting that the 996 GT3 will be the last stand in a long line of great raw sportscars, and curious how you feel about that (good and bad).
04-25-2006, 12:02 PM
#3
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
No big deal, the 997 GT3 will be a more versatile car than the previous model. Fortunately the hard core gang like us will also have the choice of the 997GT3RS which remains true to the RS philosophy of lighter weight, higher performance and fewer electronic assists.
Rgds,
Rgds,
04-25-2006, 12:04 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
How is this news? 
Since the official GT3 prochure surfaced we have known all of this.
We knew the car was coming with PASM.
We knew the car would have traction control.... which is switchable, what's the problem?
We knew the car had VARIABLE RATIO, not active, steering. Variable ratio simply means the ratio is quicker at the extreme ends of lock which allows you to have a very quick overall ratio while maintaining excellent on center feel without being overly twitchy.
Again, how is all this news? The only thing we don't know is whether we will have the option to have the car without sunroof, which I agree is a valid and worrying prospect.
Otherwise you are just rehashing the same old sour grapes.
And as far as claiming the 996GT3 to be the last in a long line of "raw sportscars" I know of several '73 RS, 930, 965, 993RS, etc etc owners that would beg to differ.
Since the official GT3 prochure surfaced we have known all of this.We knew the car was coming with PASM.
We knew the car would have traction control.... which is switchable, what's the problem?
We knew the car had VARIABLE RATIO, not active, steering. Variable ratio simply means the ratio is quicker at the extreme ends of lock which allows you to have a very quick overall ratio while maintaining excellent on center feel without being overly twitchy.
Again, how is all this news? The only thing we don't know is whether we will have the option to have the car without sunroof, which I agree is a valid and worrying prospect.
Otherwise you are just rehashing the same old sour grapes.
And as far as claiming the 996GT3 to be the last in a long line of "raw sportscars" I know of several '73 RS, 930, 965, 993RS, etc etc owners that would beg to differ.
04-25-2006, 12:12 PM
#7
Originally Posted by pcar964
I have no agenda with this thread, just want to hear your opinions.
yeah right 
*I share your goal. I share your passion for pure sportscars.
I disagree with your conclusion about the "last" true sportscar.
Under your criteria, the 996 GT3 doesn't even count. Why not the '73RS? I mean, the 996 GT3 is a lot heavier, it has ABS and power steering. Egads.
I think that each time technological changes come out, the collective crowd, including me, poo poos it. I think this is in part due to the fact that the first generation of the gadgets typically need improvement. Think PCCBs for example. I bet in 10 years PCCBs will be awesome, and eventually people will wonder how we ever did without it. The same may very well be said about PASM. There is nothing in theory about it that should make it fundamentally inconsistent with racing or pure sports car theory.
I get your point. I just sorta view changes like this as inevitable. The sunroof thing pisses me off even more.
I just wish Porsche would let you spec EVERYTHING out yourself, and that they would turn weight into a marketing tool. In the car configurator, they should list the amount of weight that each option adds or subtracts. Now THAT would be cool.
*Hopefully you know me well enough by now to know I am just razzin you a bit.
Trending Topics
04-25-2006, 12:24 PM
#8
I really like the aesthetics of the 997GT3. The look, stance and so on. I'll order one when I can get an options list, pricing, firm delivery and so on. That said, that is has PASM doesn't really bother me one way or the other. Of the track/race cars I've had only two have had stabiilty control. Unless i am figuring out lines or just playing I just turn it off. What surprises me about the 997GT3 is how many people I know that are very fast drivers are waiting for it because it has those tools. They know how to use it and I guess I never learned. I drive my 996GT3 and honestly never even think about it.
That said, I have experience with two cars where I thought the tools were a big plus. The first was a C6 Z06 I had on Las Vegas Motor Speedway. It is a very potent car and I just couldn't get the feel of the rear. Maybe that's how some people feel in 911's? The other car was a CGT I rode in last week on the track. I think the traction control made it faster. It would have for me anyways.
In the end, I'm glad Porsche is not standing still and is delivering enthusiast cars to the market. I remember some of the dark days.
That said, I have experience with two cars where I thought the tools were a big plus. The first was a C6 Z06 I had on Las Vegas Motor Speedway. It is a very potent car and I just couldn't get the feel of the rear. Maybe that's how some people feel in 911's? The other car was a CGT I rode in last week on the track. I think the traction control made it faster. It would have for me anyways.
In the end, I'm glad Porsche is not standing still and is delivering enthusiast cars to the market. I remember some of the dark days.
04-25-2006, 12:30 PM
#9
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by pcar964
I have no agenda with this thread, just want to hear your opinions. I know we've talked about this topic a lot the past few months, and we know there's a difference of opinion on the driver aides, etc. But it's interesting that the 996 GT3 will be the last stand in a long line of great raw sportscars, and curious how you feel about that (good and bad).
The 356 was the last real Porsche (4 cams)
The '77S was the last of the lightweights
The '89 911 Turbo was the last of the "true" 930s
The '94 964 was the last of the "classic look" & handbuilts
The 3.6T was the last of the single turbos
The 993 was the last of the aircooled
The 996GT3 is certainly a great car, but it's Porsche heritage/snob appeal is pretty far down the list.
04-25-2006, 12:30 PM
#10
Instructor
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My first post here - I am sure I will make enemies immediately.
I have been following your discussions on the 997 GT3. A lot of people are apparently disappointed with it, calling it soft and complaining about the drivers' aids. I disagree with all of you. It sort of reminds me of the discussion people were having between the 993 and the 996. Many complained when Porsche went water cooled. Not as raw. A bit more mainstream. Porsche losing the plot? Now I think everybody recognizes that it was the right move to be able to contine developing the 911. Although as a previous 993 owner I do love that car.
911 development has been going on for 30 years. The 2.7RS of 1973 has much less technology and is "purer" than the 964RS. The 964RS is purer than the 993RS. The 996GT3 is water cooled! The 997 has PASM and active steering. They are all evoutions and I think the difference between the 997GT3 and the 996 GT3 is smaller than 996GT3 and 993RS. What's my point? Well, the 998 GT3 is probably going to have even more technology. Will the 998GT3 then be the "last of the breed"? I think not.
They ALL have one thing in common - they are GREAT drivers' cars. The 997 GT3 is no exception. None of us have driven it yet, but we are happy to knock it all the same. That's silly because I am sure it's an absolute blast to drive. If those drivers' aids would interfere with the driving experience and couldn't be switched off, if they made the care much heavier and slower - then I would agree. As it stands - they don't.
Now.... This said.... The sunroof thing is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. People in US that can't delete it are right to be pissed off. The sunroof has nothing to do with the thrill of driving. On the contrary it adds unnecessary weight in the wrong place. PASM GT3, as far as I understand from people who actually tried it, does improve the driving experience without diluting the pleasure or skill needed to go fast.
I have a lot of sympathy for people who want absolute purity and prefer less technology. It's a perfectly reasonable point-of-view. But you guys should get a 964/993 RS or, better yet, a good old 2.7RS. Maybe even the RS version of the 997 GT3. As for me, I do like 911 evolution. And I love the 997 GT3.
I have been following your discussions on the 997 GT3. A lot of people are apparently disappointed with it, calling it soft and complaining about the drivers' aids. I disagree with all of you. It sort of reminds me of the discussion people were having between the 993 and the 996. Many complained when Porsche went water cooled. Not as raw. A bit more mainstream. Porsche losing the plot? Now I think everybody recognizes that it was the right move to be able to contine developing the 911. Although as a previous 993 owner I do love that car.
911 development has been going on for 30 years. The 2.7RS of 1973 has much less technology and is "purer" than the 964RS. The 964RS is purer than the 993RS. The 996GT3 is water cooled! The 997 has PASM and active steering. They are all evoutions and I think the difference between the 997GT3 and the 996 GT3 is smaller than 996GT3 and 993RS. What's my point? Well, the 998 GT3 is probably going to have even more technology. Will the 998GT3 then be the "last of the breed"? I think not.
They ALL have one thing in common - they are GREAT drivers' cars. The 997 GT3 is no exception. None of us have driven it yet, but we are happy to knock it all the same. That's silly because I am sure it's an absolute blast to drive. If those drivers' aids would interfere with the driving experience and couldn't be switched off, if they made the care much heavier and slower - then I would agree. As it stands - they don't.
Now.... This said.... The sunroof thing is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. People in US that can't delete it are right to be pissed off. The sunroof has nothing to do with the thrill of driving. On the contrary it adds unnecessary weight in the wrong place. PASM GT3, as far as I understand from people who actually tried it, does improve the driving experience without diluting the pleasure or skill needed to go fast.
I have a lot of sympathy for people who want absolute purity and prefer less technology. It's a perfectly reasonable point-of-view. But you guys should get a 964/993 RS or, better yet, a good old 2.7RS. Maybe even the RS version of the 997 GT3. As for me, I do like 911 evolution. And I love the 997 GT3.
04-25-2006, 12:34 PM
#11
Originally Posted by 38D
Don't kid yourself. There have been so many "lasts" it's not even funny:
The 356 was the last real Porsche (4 cams)
The '77S was the last of the lightweights
The '89 911 Turbo was the last of the "true" 930s
The '94 964 was the last of the "classic look" & handbuilts
The 3.6T was the last of the single turbos
The 993 was the last of the aircooled
The 996GT3 is certainly a great car, but it's Porsche heritage/snob appeal is pretty far down the list.
The 356 was the last real Porsche (4 cams)
The '77S was the last of the lightweights
The '89 911 Turbo was the last of the "true" 930s
The '94 964 was the last of the "classic look" & handbuilts
The 3.6T was the last of the single turbos
The 993 was the last of the aircooled
The 996GT3 is certainly a great car, but it's Porsche heritage/snob appeal is pretty far down the list.
That was exactly my point.
TD
04-25-2006, 12:35 PM
#12
Originally Posted by JFT
My first post here - I am sure I will make enemies immediately.
I have been following your discussions on the 997 GT3. A lot of people are apparently disappointed with it, calling it soft and complaining about the drivers' aids. I disagree with all of you. It sort of reminds me of the discussion people were having between the 993 and the 996. Many complained when Porsche went water cooled. Not as raw. A bit more mainstream. Porsche losing the plot? Now I think everybody recognizes that it was the right move to be able to contine developing the 911. Although as a previous 993 owner I do love that car.
911 development has been going on for 30 years. The 2.7RS of 1973 has much less technology and is "purer" than the 964RS. The 964RS is purer than the 993RS. The 996GT3 is water cooled! The 997 has PASM and active steering. They are all evoutions and I think the difference between the 997GT3 and the 996 GT3 is smaller than 996GT3 and 993RS. What's my point? Well, the 998 GT3 is probably going to have even more technology. Will the 998GT3 then be the "last of the breed"? I think not.
They ALL have one thing in common - they are GREAT drivers' cars. The 997 GT3 is no exception. None of us have driven it yet, but we are happy to knock it all the same. That's silly because I am sure it's an absolute blast to drive. If those drivers' aids would interfere with the driving experience and couldn't be switched off, if they made the care much heavier and slower - then I would agree. As it stands - they don't.
Now.... This said.... The sunroof thing is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. People in US that can't delete it are right to be pissed off. The sunroof has nothing to do with the thrill of driving. On the contrary it adds unnecessary weight in the wrong place. PASM GT3, as far as I understand from people who actually tried it, does improve the driving experience without diluting the pleasure or skill needed to go fast.
I have a lot of sympathy for people who want absolute purity and prefer less technology. It's a perfectly reasonable point-of-view. But you guys should get a 964/993 RS or, better yet, a good old 2.7RS. Maybe even the RS version of the 997 GT3. As for me, I do like 911 evolution. And I love the 997 GT3.
I have been following your discussions on the 997 GT3. A lot of people are apparently disappointed with it, calling it soft and complaining about the drivers' aids. I disagree with all of you. It sort of reminds me of the discussion people were having between the 993 and the 996. Many complained when Porsche went water cooled. Not as raw. A bit more mainstream. Porsche losing the plot? Now I think everybody recognizes that it was the right move to be able to contine developing the 911. Although as a previous 993 owner I do love that car.
911 development has been going on for 30 years. The 2.7RS of 1973 has much less technology and is "purer" than the 964RS. The 964RS is purer than the 993RS. The 996GT3 is water cooled! The 997 has PASM and active steering. They are all evoutions and I think the difference between the 997GT3 and the 996 GT3 is smaller than 996GT3 and 993RS. What's my point? Well, the 998 GT3 is probably going to have even more technology. Will the 998GT3 then be the "last of the breed"? I think not.
They ALL have one thing in common - they are GREAT drivers' cars. The 997 GT3 is no exception. None of us have driven it yet, but we are happy to knock it all the same. That's silly because I am sure it's an absolute blast to drive. If those drivers' aids would interfere with the driving experience and couldn't be switched off, if they made the care much heavier and slower - then I would agree. As it stands - they don't.
Now.... This said.... The sunroof thing is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. People in US that can't delete it are right to be pissed off. The sunroof has nothing to do with the thrill of driving. On the contrary it adds unnecessary weight in the wrong place. PASM GT3, as far as I understand from people who actually tried it, does improve the driving experience without diluting the pleasure or skill needed to go fast.
I have a lot of sympathy for people who want absolute purity and prefer less technology. It's a perfectly reasonable point-of-view. But you guys should get a 964/993 RS or, better yet, a good old 2.7RS. Maybe even the RS version of the 997 GT3. As for me, I do like 911 evolution. And I love the 997 GT3.
04-25-2006, 04:16 PM
#13
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai, UAE
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by JFT
My first post here - I am sure I will make enemies immediately.
I have been following your discussions on the 997 GT3. A lot of people are apparently disappointed with it, calling it soft and complaining about the drivers' aids. I disagree with all of you. It sort of reminds me of the discussion people were having between the 993 and the 996. Many complained when Porsche went water cooled. Not as raw. A bit more mainstream. Porsche losing the plot? Now I think everybody recognizes that it was the right move to be able to contine developing the 911. Although as a previous 993 owner I do love that car.
911 development has been going on for 30 years. The 2.7RS of 1973 has much less technology and is "purer" than the 964RS. The 964RS is purer than the 993RS. The 996GT3 is water cooled! The 997 has PASM and active steering. They are all evoutions and I think the difference between the 997GT3 and the 996 GT3 is smaller than 996GT3 and 993RS. What's my point? Well, the 998 GT3 is probably going to have even more technology. Will the 998GT3 then be the "last of the breed"? I think not.
They ALL have one thing in common - they are GREAT drivers' cars. The 997 GT3 is no exception. None of us have driven it yet, but we are happy to knock it all the same. That's silly because I am sure it's an absolute blast to drive. If those drivers' aids would interfere with the driving experience and couldn't be switched off, if they made the care much heavier and slower - then I would agree. As it stands - they don't.
Now.... This said.... The sunroof thing is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. People in US that can't delete it are right to be pissed off. The sunroof has nothing to do with the thrill of driving. On the contrary it adds unnecessary weight in the wrong place. PASM GT3, as far as I understand from people who actually tried it, does improve the driving experience without diluting the pleasure or skill needed to go fast.
I have a lot of sympathy for people who want absolute purity and prefer less technology. It's a perfectly reasonable point-of-view. But you guys should get a 964/993 RS or, better yet, a good old 2.7RS. Maybe even the RS version of the 997 GT3. As for me, I do like 911 evolution. And I love the 997 GT3.
I have been following your discussions on the 997 GT3. A lot of people are apparently disappointed with it, calling it soft and complaining about the drivers' aids. I disagree with all of you. It sort of reminds me of the discussion people were having between the 993 and the 996. Many complained when Porsche went water cooled. Not as raw. A bit more mainstream. Porsche losing the plot? Now I think everybody recognizes that it was the right move to be able to contine developing the 911. Although as a previous 993 owner I do love that car.
911 development has been going on for 30 years. The 2.7RS of 1973 has much less technology and is "purer" than the 964RS. The 964RS is purer than the 993RS. The 996GT3 is water cooled! The 997 has PASM and active steering. They are all evoutions and I think the difference between the 997GT3 and the 996 GT3 is smaller than 996GT3 and 993RS. What's my point? Well, the 998 GT3 is probably going to have even more technology. Will the 998GT3 then be the "last of the breed"? I think not.
They ALL have one thing in common - they are GREAT drivers' cars. The 997 GT3 is no exception. None of us have driven it yet, but we are happy to knock it all the same. That's silly because I am sure it's an absolute blast to drive. If those drivers' aids would interfere with the driving experience and couldn't be switched off, if they made the care much heavier and slower - then I would agree. As it stands - they don't.
Now.... This said.... The sunroof thing is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. People in US that can't delete it are right to be pissed off. The sunroof has nothing to do with the thrill of driving. On the contrary it adds unnecessary weight in the wrong place. PASM GT3, as far as I understand from people who actually tried it, does improve the driving experience without diluting the pleasure or skill needed to go fast.
I have a lot of sympathy for people who want absolute purity and prefer less technology. It's a perfectly reasonable point-of-view. But you guys should get a 964/993 RS or, better yet, a good old 2.7RS. Maybe even the RS version of the 997 GT3. As for me, I do like 911 evolution. And I love the 997 GT3.
04-25-2006, 04:32 PM
#14
Advanced
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: OC GT3
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It remains to be seen. I know I will have to leave the checkbook at home when I test one at the dealer. I will have to come up with every excuse not to have it.
Then I will wait 6 months for the ones that get turned in by the badge ****** who are too scared to drive the cars, or who don't like the cars becuase there trophy chicks won't ride along.
Then I snag one for a good price and sell off my GT3 to someone who pays decent money for it, becuase he has to own the last pure sports car.
Then I will wait 6 months for the ones that get turned in by the badge ****** who are too scared to drive the cars, or who don't like the cars becuase there trophy chicks won't ride along.
Then I snag one for a good price and sell off my GT3 to someone who pays decent money for it, becuase he has to own the last pure sports car.
04-25-2006, 05:19 PM
#15
Rhymes With Polo
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
To each his own. I am sure the new GT3 is a great car, better than mine. Thats what Porsche is supposed to do. That said, its just not the same IMO as the old 996 3. It should be easier to drive,....which would be great for guys like me that can't drive, I am sure it will be a ton of fun, IMO it looks much better than my car.
But at the end of the day, it just doesn't seem to have the same ...ummmmm Wow factor. And surely not for another 40-50 k.
But at the end of the day, it just doesn't seem to have the same ...ummmmm Wow factor. And surely not for another 40-50 k.