The 996 GT3 - the Last of the Breed
#47
Originally Posted by pcar964
That's silly about the "raised limits" being something to adjust to. My 911SC didn't have limits as high as my 993. But the SC is harder to push to its respective limits. It wasn't a "challenge" to master a 993 after throwing an SC and Carrera around.
#48
Originally Posted by bora
It's funny that all the people who are knocking the 996GT3 are the people that don't own one.
What it comes down to is this:
If you have a 996GT3, I think the price difference of $30K-$50K (for RS version) is not justified IMHO by the 997GT3. If you don't have a 996GT3 and you want to get into a GT3, then I guess one could talk themselves into a 997.
Frankly, I think 996GT3 is much like the 73 RS, a wonderful car that was broadly acclaimed by everyone that drove it including the press. We will see what the verdict is when the 997GT3 comes out.
In the meantime, threads like this are pretty much useless. A lot of bench racing
What it comes down to is this:
If you have a 996GT3, I think the price difference of $30K-$50K (for RS version) is not justified IMHO by the 997GT3. If you don't have a 996GT3 and you want to get into a GT3, then I guess one could talk themselves into a 997.
Frankly, I think 996GT3 is much like the 73 RS, a wonderful car that was broadly acclaimed by everyone that drove it including the press. We will see what the verdict is when the 997GT3 comes out.
In the meantime, threads like this are pretty much useless. A lot of bench racing
I almost bought a 996 GT3 until one of your fellow GT3 drivers talked me out of it, at least temporarily. The fact that I do not currently own one does not mean that I (1) could not own one, (2) do not "deserve" to own one, (3) will not own one in the future, or (4) cannot have opinions on its historical significance.
After all, for all you know, I have more in common with you than many who actually do currently own GT3s . . .
#49
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Originally Posted by TD in DC
The fact that I do not currently own one does not mean that I (1) could not own one, (2) do not "deserve" to own one, (3) will not own one in the future, or (4) cannot have opinions on its historical significance.
#50
Originally Posted by mooty
give it up man. i predict a GT3 will be in your possession in less than 6 months. i am fighting the urge to have another one every other day!
#51
Burning Brakes
pcar964
On the contrary sir, I'm being an optimist and a realist rather than wallowing in the "the good old days were the best" mentality you so willingly subscribe too.
Every time a new model is introduced, the likes of yourself bemoan the changes.
Porsche build a car that will suit the vast percentage of their target market, for the few that want to fine tune their cars, the likes of RUF, Manthey etc are waiting to take your hard earned cash and tailor a car to your exact needs.
No other manufacturer produces a car that can perform so admirably on track and be used on the road as well (and remain reliable)
You sir are a luddite ! Are your Michaelangelo paintings lit by candlelight ?
Should you not be sending your messages by carrier pigeon instead of posting on here ???
Yet you seem to have already decided that the new car is better glaring hypocrisy
Every time a new model is introduced, the likes of yourself bemoan the changes.
Porsche build a car that will suit the vast percentage of their target market, for the few that want to fine tune their cars, the likes of RUF, Manthey etc are waiting to take your hard earned cash and tailor a car to your exact needs.
No other manufacturer produces a car that can perform so admirably on track and be used on the road as well (and remain reliable)
You sir are a luddite ! Are your Michaelangelo paintings lit by candlelight ?
Should you not be sending your messages by carrier pigeon instead of posting on here ???
#52
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Originally Posted by TD in DC
My point to you is what makes you so certain you have "mastered" a 993? If you and Lucas Luhr (or insert the great driver of your choice) both took laps in your car, would you match his time? It is your car so you should have the advantage of familiarity, after all If you cannot, then maybe there is more lurking in your car than you realize, which for me is the essence of this sport.
#53
Originally Posted by DanH
Thats all true, although I think these aids can encourage the overconfident to drive well outside their depth, and be utterly unequipped to deal with the consequences on the occasion the computer can't do it all. I've seen people throwing turbos around the track with no idea how much the car is doing for them.
The bottom line is that it is much easier to learn how to drive well without the electronics, or even ABS. Once you can drive well, however, the electronics do not, for the most part, prevent you from driving the car just as well and just as fast as you could without the aids. If you then "race" a lesser driver in the same car that has electronics, you will still clean their clock, and no amount of electronics will compensate for their lack of skills.
In short, a modern car may make it harder to learn because it is harder to "exceed" the car's limits, but it still will not drive for you or compensate for your lack of skills vis-a-vis skilled drivers in the same type of car. There are tons of people who "think" they are fast because they have seemingly low lap times in a modern car. This does not mean that they are good drivers, or that they are even near 8-9/10s of the capabilities of their car. It just means that they are fooling themselves, and mistakenly thinking they are a better driver than the fellow with a 10 second slower time but that squeezed every available second out of the 100 rwhp car they are driving.
Last edited by TD in DC; 04-26-2006 at 11:53 AM.
#54
Three Wheelin'
The 996 Gt3 is still kicking *** in the Rolex series. Win at the 24 hour at Daytona, and a podium finish last week at VIR, beating all of the other Porsches.
#55
Originally Posted by pcar964
There's not much left "lurking" in my bone stock 993 at 2:35 at Sebring with blown shocks. If anyone wants to chime in with a faster time with a stock 993, I'm all ears You don't need to be Lucas Luhr to master a 911. Although, it seems to make some people feel better when they try to put everyone who's not a professional in the same "average driver" category like themselves, and imagine those pros are somehow untouchable... that way, they don't have to compare themselves to their peers who might be much better drivers. I think in psychology, it's called "framing" or something...
Rather than "framing," I think it is called humility and being realistic.
If you are really getting everything possible out of your 993, which I still seriously doubt , then all the electronics in the world would not stand in your way of getting everything out of a 996 or a 997GT3 with all the goodies you hate. You would also crush any time you could think of in your 993 without those electronic goodies.
Also, I think that the possibility of more speed "lurking" in my car in its current form is a great thing. It would be depressing to know that I have already reached the ultimate plateau of driving. What would be the point of continuing on the amateur level?
P.S. You definitely are a romantic luddite. Do you wear a puffy pirate shirt as well? Ayeee matee, hand over the booty!!!!!!!!!!
#56
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The 996 GT3 has ABS. Period. Good drivers never use it and it only intervenes when something unexpected happens - like a 944 drops antifreeze in the braking zone<grin - cheap shot acknowledged>.
The 997 GT3 has ABS and traction control. TC can be switched off. PASM gives a choice of firm and very firm. The former is nice for the trip home. The 997GT3 weighs 30 lbs more than the 996. Not bad considering the power is up from 380 to 415. What's not to like?
Having said that my deposit is in for a 997 GT3RS which I hope will be more hard-core than the regular version.
Watching the evolution of the lawsuit surrounding Ben Keaton's accident, I fear that we won't have choices in the future. If Porsche is fouond at fault for not putting PSM on the CGT, you can be damn sure that it will show up on everything, and the feds will probably mandate it.
The 997 GT3 has ABS and traction control. TC can be switched off. PASM gives a choice of firm and very firm. The former is nice for the trip home. The 997GT3 weighs 30 lbs more than the 996. Not bad considering the power is up from 380 to 415. What's not to like?
Having said that my deposit is in for a 997 GT3RS which I hope will be more hard-core than the regular version.
Watching the evolution of the lawsuit surrounding Ben Keaton's accident, I fear that we won't have choices in the future. If Porsche is fouond at fault for not putting PSM on the CGT, you can be damn sure that it will show up on everything, and the feds will probably mandate it.
#57
Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
The 996 GT3 has ABS. Period. Good drivers never use it and it only intervenes when something unexpected happens - like a 944 drops antifreeze in the braking zone<grin - cheap shot acknowledged>.
#58
Burning Brakes
Bob Rouleau "Watching the evolution of the lawsuit surrounding Ben Keaton's accident, I fear that we won't have choices in the future. If Porsche is fouond at fault for not putting PSM on the CGT, you can be damn sure that it will show up on everything, and the feds will probably mandate it"
But seriously, BMW GB made E46 M3 CSL owners sign a disclaimer if the car was supplied on MPS Cups.
If this is the way lawyers in the USA are going to treat companies like Porsche, perhaps all owners of new Porsches should be made to sign a disclaimer saying they accept the consequences of driving a performance car and accept that accidents are caused by peoples inability to control such cars (and not the cars inabilty to think for the cretin behind the steering wheel )
#59
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Atgani - I agree and I would not be surprised if we do see a disclaimer. Perhaps tied to an invitation to attend a HP driving school, if declined the waiver would be presented.
I've said it before, in the USA there are no incompetent drivers, just bad cars and very good lawyers.
I've said it before, in the USA there are no incompetent drivers, just bad cars and very good lawyers.
#60
The Rebel
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
Atgani - I agree and I would not be surprised if we do see a disclaimer. Perhaps tied to an invitation to attend a HP driving school, if declined the waiver would be presented.
I've said it before, in the USA there are no incompetent drivers, just bad cars and very good lawyers.
I've said it before, in the USA there are no incompetent drivers, just bad cars and very good lawyers.