Flying Finn

Grant's car sure has updated suspension but I'm sure a lot has to do with:" you need to be a real driver in order to really drive a 911".

Those early 911s (turbos especially) that were found in ditches *** first were 95% of the time driven by people who though they could drive, and maybe they could've if it was a normal car but in order to drive early 911, you actually had to know how to drive, which those drivers didn't.

Kinda like driving a Lotus fairly fast and then thinking you're a good driver but then trying to do the same in 911 and suddenly realyzing you'r not.
(Just kidding man, but with the jokes form you, I couldn't resist...)

GrantG

My car does have racing RSR coilovers at all corners (instead of torsion bars) and spherical bearings everywhere instead of rubber bushings, but the biggest difference comes from experience.

The 911 is a handful the first time you get it sideways (unexpectedly), but once you learn to listen to the car and perfect your reactions to what it's telling you, it becomes very easy. It just is very different from a front-engined car and you have to train yourself to do the right thing (usually involves adding throttle while your panic response says lift or brake). Just takes lots of seat time, but then it is more rewarding than anything else...

Phokaioglaukos

Just like a motorcycle, not that it's any easier to learn on two wheels, and perhaps harder.

MickOpalak

What I hear you saying is that the early 911s weren't that hard to control once in oversteer, but what I'm referencing is the car's tendency to easily go into oversteer. Sure, a great driver might catch it in time to 'drift' it through the corner, but what I've read is that most drivers couldn't caught it in time and ended up in the ditch. So I guess, to answer my own question, the reason you find the car so easy to drive at the limit isn't because you've (necessarily) worked it over to make easy to control, you just know how to handle it when it does oversteer.

BTW, anyone here in the Atlanta area wanna give me a chance to drive a 911, any vintage? I've never driven one and wonder if the experience is as magical as some say it is.

MickOpalak

Alright now, I could turn the joke around on you too!

For example, "Kinda like driving a Lotus fairly fast and then thinking you're a good driver but then trying to do the same in a 911 and suddenly realizing that the Porsche can't go as fast without spinning."

Terry L

I replaced my 1988 Carrera 3.2 track car with an Elise and parked the two together for comparison. It's amazing but the wheelbases were very close. Of course, the Elise is narrower but not as much as you'd think. A lot of the interior width is taken up with the wide sills. My Carrera was very stiff, lowered, and track-prepared and had Hoosiers or other R tires. Frankly, it didn't feel all that different from a stock sport-equipped Elise except the latter has more body lean, more compliance, and even more sensitivity to inputs, especially sudden (bad) ones. My Carrera was pretty neutral and the Elise is too. One big difference is that while the Elise's rear can start to move at any input, even slight, it is really easy to catch so long as you don't waste any time. Top end power on the Elise is its Achilles heel.

icon

i'm a lefty and i think it would take me more than a little practice!
i tried it tonight and put too much foot into it.
woulod have to learn a lighter touch with my left foot!

but you can switch back and forth from right foot braking to left foot braking with little problem?

Nordschleife

Two of the cars I most frequently see crashed are the GT2 and the 360 CS. In each case these cars are difficult to control at the limit, which a surprising number of people never ever reach, prior to the time they crash. The GT2 has enough power to require skilled application of throttle, which catches out a lot of drivers. The 360 has a characteristic a lot of mid engined cars have, when it goes it goes very suddenly and requires skilful handling to catch without over correcting, if over correction comes into play then it flicks equally suddenly in the other direction.

Both of these cars are popular with drivers whose accession to wealth is comparatively recent. You don't have to go back to many years and cars that behaved well at the limit were the exception rather than the rule, this did make for more informed, if not more capable drivers. Although you can 'inform' some people all the time, without it having any perceptable influence upon their understanding.

R+C

Nordschleife

I learned to drive on agricultural equipment, I can control a hand throttle with my bum whilst feeding out, so maybe that was good practice.

Seriously, switching between LFB and RFB is completely unconscious, I might even do it in the middle of braking, particularly when bored in traffic in some rent-a-wreck.

Winter driving safety is often improved by judicious LFB, depending on the car you are in.

R+C

Flying Finn

Hey now, but that's my point.

For most of the guys (like those Lotus drivers ) you're right but when it comes to guys like me and Grant, not a problem!

You should try 911 at track (if someone lets you).

If it's 993, or expecially 996 or 997, oversteer is not that big of a deal (try short wheelbase 911!) but it is different from front or mid engine cars for sure.

I find my car (it is quite modified though) very easy to get oversteer if I want to, but also not if I want to.
Way I do it is to come to the corner little too fast, trail brake and by doing that, get the tail to rotate, then just cotrol with throttle and steering wheel so it turns nicely through the turn.
Some times (ok, rarely) you do it perfectly and from outside it looks like you're not sliding at all even though ever so slightly you are, some times it gets little too much sideways which is more fun but not necessarily the fastest way!

If/when you try 911 at track, especially if it's not water pumper (those are easier and more neutral), try to do it for a little longer so you'll get used to the weight in the back, otherwise you just think it's not good.
Friend of mine who has Z06 bought GT3 and first time he was at track, he was few seconds slower with GT3 that waht his times with Z06 were and he was just messing it all the time.
After couple of more track days and now he's faster woth GT3! He says Z06 is certainly faster to drive if you're average driver but once you get the hang of it and if you really know how to drive it, GT3 is faster. I agree.

Fast driver is fast in any car but if you're used to only front engine cars, 911 has a learning curve for most of us.