MetalSolid

With all the talk of traction-control on the up coming 997 GT3, I'm curious to know actually how many with the 996 GT3 have had "moments" on the street where they wished they had TC?

I have to say I've had exactly three unplanned "moments" on the street where the backend has come out [~40°] very quickly; each time I was going relatively slowly and was able to catch it with measured amounts of opposite-lock, and each time I was on wet/cold MPSCs... Other than that, it seems the GT3 works best with the tail out a few degrees and TC isn't required.

Bob Rouleau

Never did it on the street, only once on the track and it was due to my entry speed and not with my throttle foot. Tires went away and I got it more than 40 degrees sideways. Traction control would not have helped. Frankly I think TC mostly permits bad drivers to avoid spins at corner exits. Remember the old maxim - "pros lose it at corner entry, duffers lose it at the exit".

Rgds,

mds

I'm interesting in learning exactly what TC does, when it is useful and when it is not.

One problem I see is this: If I go to full throttle after turn in and but before track out the rear starts to go away, then the last thing I want is for TC to cut the throttle. That will guarantee trailing throttle oversteer and a spin. So TC in this case will make things very much worse for me, IMO.

On the other hand, if I'm turning a corner well below the limit, mash the throttle and as a result the rear starts to slip immediately, weight has not transfered to the rear yet and so maybe a TC thottle cut will help recover the car.

So I think TC's pluses and minuses depend critically on just how it works.

FixedWing

Bob,

Why do you think traction control couldn't handle 40 degrees sideways? If I understand correctly, the latest iteration of PSM, in sports mode, will allow a 15 degree yaw angle before it even starts to intervene (which is a hell of a lot). I would expect the 997 GT3 system to be at least that good.

I think the inescapable fact remains that TC can control the wheels individually. Until we are able to do that I would expect that TC can do more than we can.

Stephen

MetalSolid

Porsche's CGT TC def:
"The traction control or 'anti-slip regulation' system (ASR) provides direct coordination of all four wheels to smooth out any variances in traction. This selective regulation of each individual wheel enables the car to maximize the available grip and achieve balanced acceleration and braking. For added driver involvement, the traction control system can be manually disabled at the wheel..."

GT3 Nut

TC and PSM are NOT the same thing.

FixedWing

Yes, I just picked up on that.

So is the new GT3 provided with traction control but not stability control? Well that sucks. I always think that a half-way decent driver can easily handle traction control. It is stability control which would add value.

Stephen

rockitman

like psm ? That would/will suck.

roberga

Zero

Ray G

I've never had the GT3 rear loose on accident. I've done it on purpose at times for fun. And I'm driving with MPSC tires in the cold!

IMO, simple T/C only helps idiots. It doesn't help much if you are at already at speed. It only comes into play if you are already going slow, and you mash the throttle, or otherwise exceed the friction at the rear wheels. Anybody with an iota of driving ability should be able to avoid that.

If we were talking about a normal passenger car, then it will help in bad weather too. But, that is not the intention for the GT3 or CGT.

I'm not saying they should give the GT3 the full PSM. That would be terrible, IMO.

FixedWing

Even if you could turn it off ?

Stephen

NJ-GT

On the streets, well. If a parking lot full of cones (auto-x) is considered street, then a lot of times, a lot of fun, and I don't wish a TC.

I've driven this car on heavy rain, on bald MPSC and I haven't missed any kind of TC or PSM.

I spun the car 3 times at the track, and the TC was not going to help. Spin 1: a flat rear tire at turn 4 on Watkins Glen. Spin 2: Pocono North entering the bowl, my mistake turning too much instead of tracking out. Spin 3 an auto-x on Pocono East on semi-dry pavement (driver's error again).

2002M3Drew

Spin 4 - You forgot about the infamous spin and miss at Pocono entering the infield off the North Course, dodging those little yellow Entropy Racing things!

Spin 5- Some moron codriver spun the car on the parade lap at a NASA autocross

Spin 6 - Same moron, DC... thank God for Bertil-Roos (and dumb luck)

NJ-GT

Spin 4: oh yeah. Trying to avoid the 993TT that spun right in front of me. He didn't want to let me by, driving over his limits and the expected happened. At the same time I was trying to avoid the open cockpit racing thingy that took a red flag as a passing signal and was coming 40mph faster than me to my rear bumper.

Spin 5 & 6 were done on the streets (on a closed road, under a sanctioning body such as SCCA, PCA, etc). If I count those the number might reach over 100 easily.

The Spin 4 driver apologized for the mistake. He was a nice guy and as terrible driver as his buddy with the white GT2. The GT2 guy asked me why my car was pulling away from him on the back straight at Pocono, my answer: "your car is faster than mine" .

Seth Thomas

Yes it would still suck. What makes a GT3 one of the best Porsches out there is that it is a hot rod for the streets. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles that one expects in their everyday car. It is raw with only the bits on it that it needs to go fast. A raw car should not have any kind of electronic aids to numb it down to an everyday type of car. I would be happy if they went back to the old school crank windows with a pull tab for the door handle. I hope they don't make the new 997 GT3 more of a car for everybody just to sell more or to appease the masses. Keep the heritage there and make it the bare bones 997 with nothing on it. Keep it the raw hot street car that everyone wants but not everyone can drive. That is what I hope the 997 GT3 is like.